Eastern themed party

[Yorick]

No worries Zateel.

Aegis, thanks for your input as with yours Hesperex.

Ramon, mystified is more the word. I enjoy passionate intelligent discussion, but this has me more intrigued. How one can keep reiterating an argument so lacking in foundation astounds me. He has been proved wrong on the count of Asian "magic-users" by 3 of us, proved wrong about Arabic nations in Asia by two of us plus an encyclopedia reference, four of us pointed out to him that Kara-tur is actually an imaginary world, and yet he refuses to acknowledge or accede to any of these points.

His grounding for "no wizards in Asia" is based on the presumption that because he has never come across such figures in the myths he is familiar with, they don't exist. This is a bold statement to begin with, but the fact that a few of us have heard of such, or quantified our definition of "wizard" and "magic" should have provoked a rethink - alas no.

To further his cause an attempt was made to exclude non-chinese cultures from Asia. Again despite opposing evidence and opinions a rethink was again not evident.

Entertaining would also be the word. Like a good mystery.
C'mon 250, give it a rest mate. No shame in being wrong sheesh!


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FAIR DINKUM!

[250]

Yorick. of course no shame in being wrong, but I am just not convinced. sorry, you all tried. I am not convinced. you can call me closed minded or thick skull or whatever. It takes more to convince someone.

and about the real name thing, I wasn't asking for the sake of who is right or who is wrong. I was just interested.

[250]

and sorry about that "you dont know shit" part. it was a bad hobbit carried with me from somewhere else... where debates were more firece and terrifying. heh, if you been there, you wouldn't be surprised.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Aegis Crownguard: Im sorry i didnt see this post sooner. I spent alot of time at a university in Beijing and actually studied ancient asian culture. There are many aspects of asian history (both oral and written) that elude to magic and some of them outright state the existence of it. For instance,while most stories refer to gods and "godly magic" their are also scripts that refer to common people and "commoners magic". One such person is Han Hsiang Tzu. He was a scholar who was persecuted because he chose to study magic rather than prepare for civil service (and yes, its actually uses the word "magic"). In order to prove that magic was real Han made two roses materialize out of some lines of poetry. There are also scripts which refer to magic items such as "magic swords" and such. In one such story Lu Tung Po slays a dragon with a magic sword. This sword was forged from Chang Kua Luao, and no Lu was not a god I hope that this can clear some issues up about magic in asian culture. Thanks for listening. -Aegis

250 this post by Aegis TOTALLY DISPROVES YOUR STATEMENT.
You may as well say that there is no grass in France and then refuse to be convinced. "MAGIC-USERS HAVE EXISTED IN ASIAN MYTHOLOGICAL WRITINGS" It's not a matter of being convinced, this is not a philosophical or religious discussion, this is a discussion on the historical existence of a mythological profession.
You are wrong. To continue to adhere to a blind opposite thought, defys logic. It only serves to diminish your standing when making future statements.

There is strength in admitting failure 250.

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FAIR DINKUM!

[Yorick]

No worries about the "You don't know shit". This is a different board to the innane discussions on others, largely because the contributors are older, deeper thinkers and from various professions and nations. We also have a large percentage of women (thankfully) which brings in a totally different flavour.

Try putting up your person details 250. You've picked a number and disclosed nothing about yourself in your profile. It hardly makes for a warm welcome.

Lifetime, I'm 29.

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FAIR DINKUM!

[250]

sorry about my extraordianry commanding of english language as sometimes they don't seem to make any sense, nonetheless you got the picture.

ok, get to the point. to myself, my qusetion is those "qulified" figures you mentioned, can they really be considered as wizard? what is the standard of a wizard? I asked myself over and over (heh, it interested me a bit, i have to admit, and it is no longer who is right or wrong) and that leads to another question: how do people created this "wizardery" figure in the first place?

there are many reasons for those mythterious figures' existence. I would think wizard resembled a sense of control over the unknown, they also resembled knowledge and wisdom. (of course, it is slightly different to different cultures) At the time when things weren't so developed, there were things could not be explained by ancient people,( i tried 10 mins to find a big word to express my meaning, but obviously, i failed, anyway) so those people who seek or already had a slight idea of the "arcane" normally had more sense of control, and therefore, those figures were mytified and respected, even feared.

I guess this is how the wizard started in the first place. And if we both agree the wizard as a figure expressed above, then there were "wizard" in asia.

HOWEVER! as i said, to different culture, wizard would resemble slightly different things. and that is CERTAINLY true. in western cultures, ones like europe, I would think (though I definately not sure, correct me if I am wrong) wizards means a strong sense of control, knowledgable, and PERSON (yes, that is the key word, PERSON, the difference between western and eastern culture)
on the other hand, the eastern culture more look into the connection BETWEEN person and his surroundings, such as natual, unknown myths, people, and such.

ACKKKK I hate english, I will stop right now

[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 03-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 03-15-2001).]

[250]

and wizard also resembles a sense of fear. to the ancient people, of course

but my point is... ARRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGG, i am going berserk! it is so hard to explain what I am trying to say

ok, calm down, let me try again.

OH I SEE!!! give me a min to type

[dafan]

It simple wizzards are some lunitics who think they are somthing but when you take your sword push it through his heart he knows that he is for no more than others

Dead to the wizzards except....

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My strength and honor
for king and country

[250]

you see, in western world, person who was considered as wizard (this sounds wired because there wasn't any, then again... over look the gramma please) there are still human, right? yes they are.

but in asia, those mythical figures are all god-related. Agies' post mentioned someone who slew a dragon and he was no god was definately not true. for example, chinese people respect ghost, and unnatual things, those who had great knowledge were feared, yes, indeed feared, but the respect part played more weight than fear. the execution of people with unnatual abilites were VERY rare.

there were many many tales regard with people who had godlike abilities. (watch my word choice, not magic) that is not something they come up with intelligence or hard working or had control over certain knowledge, no, they were mostly god-granted power. Someone could hide deep in moutains and "draw" power from natual, and after few thousands years, they become gods.

while in western, the figures most closely resembled wizards are witchs, correct (you can certainly disprove it) but the emotion regard them were more fear out of respect. and mostly those...err.... I dont really know. tell me what you know about "western" defined wizard, and compare to what I already told you. maybe that will lead to some sense.

sigh... I give up

[250]

Originally posted by 250: you see, in western world, person who was considered as wizard (this sounds wired because there wasn't any, then again... over look the gramma please) there are still human, right? yes they are. but in asia, those mythical figures are all god-related. Agies' post mentioned someone who slew a dragon and he was no god was definately not true. for example, chinese people respect ghost, and unnatual things, those who had great knowledge were feared, yes, indeed feared, but the respect part played more weight than fear. the execution of people with unnatual abilites were VERY rare. there were many many tales regard with people who had godlike abilities. (watch my word choice, not magic) that is not something they come up with intelligence or hard working or had control over certain knowledge, no, they were mostly god-granted power. Someone could hide deep in moutains and "draw" power from natual, and after few thousands years, they become gods. while in western, the figures most closely resembled wizards are witchs, correct (you can certainly disprove it) but the emotion regard them were more fear out of respect. and mostly those...err.... I dont really know. tell me what you know about "western" defined wizard, and compare to what I already told you. maybe that will lead to some sense. sigh... I give up

OMG, I just read my own post, and the argument SUCKS. forget it.