Barak Obama - Heir Apparant

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior But, he lied about one thing to get another thing entirely. What was untrue or inaccurate in Al Gore's movie, doesn't change the overall message. The message didn't for example, suddenly turn into "Let's attack Russia" from "Global warming is destroying our planet". People feel bush did a complete number on them. I feel Al Gore didn't, as the fact still remains that global warming is a huge threat. The only way we could say that these situations are/were similiar is if I go back to my earlier example. If we were told there were 20 WMD's and we ended up with 10 I would say "Well, his info. had some inacuraccies in it but overall he was correct. There were WMD's and that's what we were told and that's what we got". Instead, we got none, but were told that Saddam was better off dead anyways. Can I get a 'Wtf was that about?'.

While I really don't want to go off on yet another tangent, there are a couple of considerations that should be remembered about the WoMDs. First, the U.N. tried using sanctions against Saddam Hussein for 12 years because they also believed he had manufactured WoMDs. The UN also demanded access to sites they believe contained these WoMDs on several occasions and Saddam consistently denied their request for several weeks each time. After 3-4 weeks, he would capitulate and allow the officials to inspect the chosen site. Is it really a surprise these places were clean when the inspectors got there? Yes, it's possible they were never there to begin with. But just imagine the police calling a suspected drug dealer and saying "We have a search warrant for your house" and the drug dealer saying "I cannot allow you access at this time." The police continue making requests followed by demands and finally search the house 3 weeks later. Does the fact that they find no drugs mean they were wrong about the guy being a drug dealer? Or is it possible he has removed all evidence of his drugs from the home and stored them in another location.

Saddam had 12 years to play this shell game with any WoMDs he may have had. He had another year before the U.S. military seized control of is country and began having access to search facilities themselves. Some trace evidence was found, but nothing on the scale expected. Maybe they never existed, or maybe Saddam had ample time to destroy all evidence or move them to an allied country. We'll never know for sure.

The comparison between the War in Iraq and global warmer are valid. Removing Saddam Hussein was always the goal of the invasion. But GWB apparantly didn't feel that goal alone would convince Congress to give him the green light for military action, so it's seems pretty certain he exaggerated the threat of WoMDs to get approval for his goal. Al Gore also exaggerates the threat in his message to get the end result he wants.

The two messages are not as dissimilar as they may appear.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Cerek While I really don't want to go off on yet another tangent, there are a couple of considerations that should be remembered about the WoMDs. First, the U.N. tried using sanctions against Saddam Hussein for 12 years because they also believed he had manufactured WoMDs. The UN also demanded access to sites they believe contained these WoMDs on several occasions and Saddam consistently denied their request for several weeks each time. After 3-4 weeks, he would capitulate and allow the officials to inspect the chosen site. Is it really a surprise these places were clean when the inspectors got there? Yes, it's possible they were never there to begin with. But just imagine the police calling a suspected drug dealer and saying "We have a search warrant for your house" and the drug dealer saying "I cannot allow you access at this time." The police continue making requests followed by demands and finally search the house 3 weeks later. Does the fact that they find no drugs mean they were wrong about the guy being a drug dealer? Or is it possible he has removed all evidence of his drugs from the home and stored them in another location. Saddam had 12 years to play this shell game with any WoMDs he may have had. He had another year before the U.S. military seized control of is country and began having access to search facilities themselves. Some trace evidence was found, but nothing on the scale expected. Maybe they never existed, or maybe Saddam had ample time to destroy all evidence or move them to an allied country. We'll never know for sure. The comparison between the War in Iraq and global warmer are valid. Removing Saddam Hussein was always the goal of the invasion. But GWB apparantly didn't feel that goal alone would convince Congress to give him the green light for military action, so it's seems pretty certain he exaggerated the threat of WoMDs to get approval for his goal. Al Gore also exaggerates the threat in his message to get the end result he wants. The two messages are not as dissimilar as they may appear.

I agree, this is a whole other nutshell to open up, and god knows we've opened enough of 'em. I want to stay on course at least with our first tangent and wrap up that by saying this.

I still think the comparison is invalid. I don't want to get into why he did or how he did it, since there may have been WMD's at one time or even when he said there was. All I am looking at is the comparison made between what is currently accepted truth with GWB's actions concerning the WMD's and what is currently accepted truth with Al Gore's actions concerning his movie.

So going on that, Bush didn't exaggerate the existence of WMD's he created it. He knew the goal was something else (Saddam) but the american people and congress needed more like you said, so imminent threat of terror via these great weapons worked well. Later, he did indeed say Saddam was a bad guy and deserved to be ousted, and I do agree with that fact. But, you know the tired old line by now...it just wasn't the point.

If Al Gore came out and said "You know that movie I made?" It was all BS and I, along with the other scientists of the world, made it all up because we just don't like smog and think that our waters and air should be clean so we can appreciate how they look naturally" then i'd feel the same. I'd be calling him all kinds of expletives because he sold me on something that was an entire fabrication. Even though I don't like smog or dirty waters i'd still feel like a number was done on me, and never trust anything the man says ever again. Because he would be creating falsehoods to achieve something we were misled to believe required action which would benefit us all, even though it would only benefit his personal desires. But he hasn't done that.

[robertthebard]

I'm going to turn a deliberate pun here, but the fact that the UN suspected that Iraq had WMD's for 12 years, and played Saddam's shell game is kind of an Inconvenient Truth when you say that GW fabricated the threat of WMD's.