Religion

Originally posted by Callum Kerr: Cloudy... interestingly enough, Jesus was NOT perfect... he did NOT wnat to do all these good things... or so my mummy tells me

Not wanting to do the right thing and doing it any way are far different from not wanting to do the right thing and then not. So obviously he was perfect(or as close as possible), since he displayed character and followed through with the right actions even though they were not the easy actions. Discuss the topic of character with your mummy

[ 12-02-2002, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Without reading too much of this thread, I'll simply note that it's like Deja Vu all over again. (Credit where it's due to Yogi Beara)

You sure it wasn't Yogi Bear?

[Grungi]

jesus had a beard ergo he is not perfect and is on his way towards being a scary man, like father christmas

[img]smile.gif[/img]

seriously though from what i know of it all and thats a fair amount:

although jesus is part of the holy trinity its pretty well known i thought that he was not perfect as he had self doubts etc, only god can be perfect.

and i didnt say you were trying to convert anyone cloud, i was only talking about the ones who do, as i said your a good example, but unfortunately theres more bad examples than good, esp in my experience.

Grunji, is there scripture stating that Jesus had a beard? I may have missed that little detail. I am fairly certain however, there are no photgraphs of him.

The perfection thing is a semantic issue between us, I consider him as perfect as humanly possible since even though he had worries (I don't think they were doubts since he knew what was to come) and he had desires, he always chose the correct and moral solution. He did not shy away, hence with his concernes and or doubts he still chose the right thing over the easy thing [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Hey Callum, [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] Good to see you joining in again.

I'm not sure why your mum would think Jesus didn't want to do the things He did. He was God's Son and knew what His purpose in life was. The only incident in the Bible of Jesus not wanting to do something was when He asked God to spare Him from the Crucifixion. It's the only time Jesus allowed his "human desire" to rise above his Divine Calling. Yet, in the same breath, He confirmed His willingness to follow God's plan ("Not my will, Father, but thine be done").

And Jesus was perfect according to the Biblical definition. He is the only person who never sinned against God or broke any of God's Laws or Commandments. Jesus came to provide a living example of God's Word. Every action he took, every word he spoke, every thought he had...was directed by God's Will. Jesus was born to show all Christians how they should conduct themselves in their daily lives. He also came to offer Himself as an atonement to God for Mankind's sinful nature.

If Jesus had committed even one sin, then His death would only have atoned for HIS sin and could NOT have atoned for everyone else's. This would have made His Sacrifice on the Cross completely useless.

[ 12-02-2002, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Grungi -


You asked earlier if any of the Christians on this board would take a homeless man into our house if he knocked on our door. I cannot speak for anybody else, but I can tell you that I most likely would not. I have to consider the safety of my wife and three very young children in taking such an action...and the fact is that it would present too large of a risk to their safety to allow him into my house.

As a quick example, I had two young black men ring my doorbell at midnight not long ago. I live in a rural area so this was VERY UNUSUAL. I opened my door enough to ask what they wanted. One said his friend was injured and would like to use my phone. I told him he and his friend could stay on the porch and I would call an ambulance for them. I did and the ambulance soon arrived to take them to the hospital. A couple of days later, I learned that his friend had been injured when they had been caught breaking into the house of one of my neighbors...and the neighbor had attacked them and driven them off. The point is....I'm not going to let anybody in my house unless I know for certain that they present no threat.

Having said that, however, there ARE other options available that I would seek. There is a Christian Shelter in my town that does offer food, shelter, and rehab to drug addicts. If they were not able to help the person, I can always call the police. They will come pick him up and take him to the home of a friend or relative if he has any. If not, they will take him to jail so that he at least has a warm place to sleep that night.

So - would I take him into MY home? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't help him.

I understand the anger and disdain you feel towards Christians because of your personal experiences and I can't say as I blame you for that. But you also seem to be setting the parameters of "acceptable Christian behavior" far too narrowly. As I mentioned before, most Christians would be the first ones to admit that they aren't perfect and that they fall short of God's Will every day. When you have a dynamic relationship with Jesus Christ, you view your actions through HIS eyes, rather than your own. I see shortcomings in my life everyday. But God doesn't expect us to be perfect, He just expects us to try and to sincerely ask for forgiveness when we fail.

[ 12-02-2002, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Grungi: jesus had a beard ergo he is not perfect and is on his way towards being a scary man, like father christmas [img]smile.gif[/img] seriously though from what i know of it all and thats a fair amount: although jesus is part of the holy trinity its pretty well known i thought that he was not perfect as he had self doubts etc, only god can be perfect. and i didnt say you were trying to convert anyone cloud, i was only talking about the ones who do, as i said your a good example, but unfortunately theres more bad examples than good, esp in my experience.

The theology is that Jesus was sinless. Without sin, not perfect. Blameless, but still with a human experience.

The whole 'atonement factor' hinges on this principle. If he wasn't sin-free, his dying in the place of all humanity doesn't mean anything. It is because he was sin-free, that it does.

However, that said, the fact that you mention that Jesus is part of the Trinity, yet then say "only God can be perfect", leads me to wonder if you understand what we mean by the Trinity. If he is part of the Trinity then he is God. If only God is perfect, then Jesus, as part of the Trinity - God as human - is also perfect.

[ 12-03-2002, 04:59 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Callum Kerr: Cloudy... interestingly enough, Jesus was NOT perfect... he did NOT wnat to do all these good things... or so my mummy tells me

Actually he went willingly. He willingly died for you and I, knowing full well what was about to take place. No-one forced him. He knew Judas was going to betray him and encouraged him to go and do it. His followers were armed, and one attempted to fight for him, yet Jesus told him not to, (what does that say about his attitude towards Christians going to war eh??) and his last miracle before the ascension, was healing the severed ear of a soldier about to take him away for trial, torture and execution.

I'd call that 'wanting to do those good things'.

Maybe you should check these things out for yourself instead of listening to Mummy. And maybe she should get more information about Jesus than what she sees in a Scorsese film...

[ 12-03-2002, 05:07 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[arion windrider]

im sorry but this is too funny... why did a game forum turn into a religious forum... heheh... all religions have there good and bad points so just leave it at that... if you love GOD or whoever, then thats cool and should be respected... boy i thought we was getting help for religion for our games... heheh

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Grungi: sounds like your a good christian if what you say is true so fair enough but if a homeless person knocked on your door, smelly, whiskey sticking out of his pocket, beard with birds nesting [img]tongue.gif[/img] , etc would you take him in for the night? see the person that would do that in my opinion is a better man than i am, cos no way i would and if a person would do that then i believe they are following their religion (most major religions have something about helping those less fortunate) as best they can and really being selfless but theres not a religious person i know who would do that.

I grew up the son of a preacher-man, in a Preachers house. I can tell you we had people like that knock on our door, and I can tell you that we gave them somewhere to sleep if they needed it. I personally set up beds, gave money, and unlocked doors for these people. Our church/rectory was known as a haven amongst the homeless community of our area.

Maybe you should check your information before you start generalisingly criticising.