Lost civilizations

[K T Ong]

Well, there you go! How are you going to account for these if all people in the past had been ignorant and superstitious dolts, as some of you suggest? I actually came across all these before, BTW, except I can't locate the sources at the moment.

Why did it have to be non-human, though? Couldn't it have been invented by real clever humans?

BTW, welcome, Niadh. (Is that a name in some Celtic language?) Hope you'll like it here at IronWorks. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Im not sure if you younger people know of him, his writing was popular back in the 70's [img]smile.gif[/img] Since you have an interest in these subjects, you might want to look up an author by the name of Erik Von Danakin...I may have spelt it wrong though....I htink that was his name...god that was soooo long ago [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edit: I just remembered one of the titles of his books..."Chariot of the Gods"


[ 08-26-2002, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[K T Ong]

I have a copy of that book, MagiK. Bought many, many years ago. Have to say he's a bit biased towards aliens; it just didn't seem to occur to him that we humans could have come up with those things ourselves.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by K T Ong: Well, there you go! How are you going to account for these if all people in the past had been ignorant and superstitious dolts, as some of you suggest? I actually came across all these before, BTW, except I can't locate the sources at the moment. Why did it have to be non-human, though? Couldn't it have been invented by real clever humans? BTW, welcome, Niadh. (Is that a name in some Celtic language?) Hope you'll like it here at IronWorks. [img]smile.gif[/img]

People have always been intelligent and clever, particularly within the more famous 'ancient civilizations'. I never claimed them to be ignorant or superstitious dolts, in fact most of the technology and social constructs of the industrialized European empires were initially borrowed from the East and the Americas, refined, and then branded as Europe's own.
But- here's a rationalist account of some of 'those' artifacts:

Gliders- Big whoop. Kites and gliders have been around for thousands of years. Making use of the wind in small-scale devices isn't hard. But taking the leap from toy-like glider to full-blown passenger-capable aircraft is a pretty huge step.

'Aerial' Maps- not hard either. Advanced mathematics and pinpoint-precise geometry are nothing new. Yes they were intelligent enough to create a sophisticated and accurate floor-plan of valleys, plains, rivers etc. Doesn't mean they actually did it from the air.

The 'Battery' pot- Well, how exactly is it supposed to be used as a battery? Is there anything present that might insinuate it's use as a battery? Does it 'plug-in' somewhere? I'm not dismissing this outright, it's very possible that battery technology may have existed in these areas at these times, but a closer look needs to be taken at the artifact to determine whether or not it is what archaeologists jumped to the conclusion that it is.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Niadh: There is proof of non-human influence in the past. example 1 - The Baghdad battery pot This pot dates to C.250BC, consists of a simple clay pot with a bitumen seal around the top. Inside is a copper cylinder, made from soldered copper, and housing an iron rod. Examination shows that the insides have been corroded by acid of some type. If filled with acid this pot would work as a battery. At 250bc there was no use for electricity. Why/how was this pot created?

As interesting as the ancient batteries are, they alone do not constitute evidence of "non-human" influence. We have no way of knowing how much knowledge might have been lost over the millenia; some really ancient cultures knew how to perform brain surgery. Some intuitive genius might have discovered simple acid/metal batteries during the course of alchemical experiments. The most plausible use for such a pot-battery is medicinal, or perhaps spiritual. Why do so many people want to sell short the technologies of ancient civilizations? Why are so many willing to accept that many mysteries must be proof of alien contact?

It all goes back to the Law of Fives. If you look for something long enough with enough creativity, you will find it. Those looking for proof of alien contact already believe that alien contact was made, and they looking to prove that it was. That is not acceptable academic research practice.

The only true proof of alien contact will be to find an alien's remains buried somewhere; this is not likely to happen, either now or in the near future (if ever). [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] I'm such a skeptic! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

[K T Ong]

One never knows.

Looking forward to the day when archaelogists will unearth a laser pistol among the burial treasures found in an ancient Chinese emperor's tomb. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Epona]

To K T, Yup Von Danakin was very much Alien biased.

To Azred, Yes you hit the nail on the head, one of mankinds greatest outrages comitted on himself was the burning of the Library at Alexandria God himself only knows how much we lost in that one act alone.

The Greeks knew and used sophisticated (for the time)Hygene oriented practices.
I think it was the Romans that had the secret of Concrete only to have it lost for centruies.
Egyptians found a way to build the Pyramids
The Aztecs and other tribes built their Andes cities and terraced gardens and of course there is the Nazca Plains drawings, which most likely drawn using geometry and not aircraft.

It seems we spend half our time forgetting what we accomplish only to have to rediscover things....and sadly too many times the cause of that loss of knowledge was religion..sad but true.

Originally posted by The Hierophant: The 'Battery' pot- Well, how exactly is it supposed to be used as a battery? Is there anything present that might insinuate it's use as a battery? Does it 'plug-in' somewhere? I'm not dismissing this outright, it's very possible that battery technology may have existed in these areas at these times, but a closer look needs to be taken at the artifact to determine whether or not it is what archaeologists jumped to the conclusion that it is.

I just watched a special that talked about the "battery pot". From what I gathered (was only half paying attention, Minute Man and Liberty Lad needed help) the thinking is that it was used for electroplating jewelery. How the guy thought of it is beyond me though...but then Im no genius [img]smile.gif[/img]

[K T Ong]

Originally posted by MagiK: It seems we spend half our time forgetting what we accomplish only to have to rediscover things....and sadly too many times the cause of that loss of knowledge was religion..sad but true.

Religion -- not necessarily restricting ourselves to the Judaeo-Christian tradition -- also inspired the search for knowledge in more than a few cases. But then I suppose it all comes down to how you define religion -- what I call religion, you might call philosophy instead.

Originally posted by MagiK: I just watched a special that talked about the "battery pot". From what I gathered (was only half paying attention, Minute Man and Liberty Lad needed help) the thinking is that it was used for electroplating jewelery.

So, you play Freedom Force too, eh?

[ 08-27-2002, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: K T Ong ]