Oh! The little devils are dead!

[johnny]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: I love how the White house spokesperson said that the difference between Iraq showing pictures of American war dead and these dead fellows was we weren't doing it for propaganda purposes like they were. Like I was born yesterday. I finally figured out why I usually have smoke coming from my ears in recent times, its cause so much is being blown up my arse. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Smoke from your ears ? Explosions up your arse ? Dude, maybe you should change your eating habits, this is not natural. For starters, lay off the Mexican food.

[Sir Taliesin]

I think you all miss the point as to why they are showing the bodies on TV. May Iraqi people are expressing doubts that they "Dynamic dou" are dead. They obviously aren't going to believe us when we say we got them, so we have to give them some kind of evidence that they can understand, hence the pictures on TV. Now if you know of a better way that this could be done, why don't you give the Feds a ring and let them know your idea.

As for the US Army handing down "Cowboy Justice", why don't you go here and read LINK.
The Army didn't go in guns-a-blazin' as you seem to think they did.

"The dramatic assault, triggered by a tip from an informant on Monday, began at about 9:00 a.m. Tuesday.

Elite soldiers of Task Force 20, including the Army's Delta Force operatives, swiftly moved into assault positions while infantry from the 101st Airborne division set up a cordon around the villa to stop anyone from escaping.

About 10 a.m., American forces issued a demand for surrender through a bullhorn. But that was immediately answered by a barrage of machine-gun fire from inside the house. At that point, "things just went ballistic," said one participant. "Those guys put up a massive fight."

Using C-4 explosives, Task Force 20 members stormed through the iron front gate - the only viable entrance to the walled compound, participants said. From there, some began clearing the first floor, while others climbed back stairs and crossed the roof for other entry points.

Inside, however, the Delta troops were unable to break through inner walls of reinforced concrete where Uday, Qusay, and other defenders were holed up. Eventually, they pulled back, and the 101st pummeled the structure with multiple barrages of TOW wire-guided missiles, fire from Mark 19 grenade launchers, and Humvee-mounted .50-caliber machine guns, as well as 2.75-inch rockets from Kiowa helicopters." From the Christian Science Monitor

They were given a chance to surrender and they didn't take it. It also sounds like the house was built like a fortress! I dare say that had even one TOW missile hit my house, there wouldn't be much left standing. Yet from the pictures shown on TV and on the internet, it looks like the house could well be inhabited again. C-4 didn't even make a dent in it.

I know some of you said to starve them out, but I wonder how many Baath supporters would have shown up to help them had the Army simple surrounded them and waited for them to surrender. I bet a lot more people would have died.

[ 07-24-2003, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Sir Taliesin ]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: You make this "YOU" point a lot, but YOU too are guilty of mincing the two distinct entities (Americans and their government). Just look at your post: "You will not be on top forever", "someone will repay YOUR cruelty", etc. How can you expect us to keep them as distinct entities when YOU don't? If you are going to attack us for playing loose and fast with our vernacular use of pronouns, YOU should conform to YOUR own expectations.

No, by YOU I referred to all those who openly praising the death of Uday and Qusai. That includes Johnny, a Dutch sales rep -David Letterman; a New York entertainer -Timber Loftis, a Chicago Lawyer -Matt Sallis, a Dunedin/New Zealand film student etc... Never once did I make a 'all you Americans' assumption, I'm well aware of the injustice of that sort of generalization.

[johnny]

Dude, it's not that i'm partying or something, i just feel some kind of relief that those two are no longer among us.

[Skunk]

Unfortunately, the use of CS Gas goes against the rules of war and the Geneva Convention

I thought that the was over and that, therefore, the Geneva Convention on the rules of engagement doesn't apply? (not that flouting the Geneva Convention is something that worries the current administration, ie GM Bay)...

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: Unfortunately, the use of CS Gas goes against the rules of war and the Geneva Convention, which we follow. I also must point out that the US military is NOT TRAINED for actual police work. They are soldiers, hence the force they practice using is most always lethal. Currently the US Marines are testing non-lethal equipment and tactics, but as far as I know they haven't actually started using them. I think an executive order that prohibited the use of assasination was a mistake and painted us into a box were by the only means open to us after negotiations and other non-agressive tactics fail is war. That's not to say that we should started shooting every leader we don't get along with. But there should be some kind of lethal means where by we can avoid direct warfare.

The prohibited use of ASSASINATION means ASSASINATION, not killing somebody in a fire fight that refuses to give up. Assasnation is a sniper at 800 yards, or poison in their food and water, a dagger in their backs while their heads are turned, etc. Assasnation IS NOT the same as surrounding a building and taking fire from said building.

*Not getting on to you Sir T,just using your post to make the point, for the NO Assasination Crowd.*

[Skunk]

Grojili-ili-ack: Thanks for the article. I think the assassination ban is a bad idea all around. What better way to make public policy than with a sniper bullet? Imagine the benefit to Cubans if the CIA had not screwed up so many assassination attempts of the beardy-guy. But, even assuming an assassination ban is a good idea, how can it persist into a time of war or conflict? Is the rule "you can shoot the innocent soldiers but not the guy directing them." This reminds me of the British complaints that Minutemen would aim for the officers, who had distinctive clothing. I say kudos to the minutemen and to anyone else who can turn the tide of a battle or a war by being smart enough to shoot the guy shouting orders. I argue such tactics also save more lives in the end.

TL, I only half agree with you on this one. Assassination is a useful and morally correct tool in time of war (anyone who wears a uniform or directs military units is fair game) - but when used outside of war, it's no less than murder and an act of terrorism. Saddam tried it on Bush senior if you remember - and the world's reaction to the shooting left you in no doubt of how little it approved of such morally bankrupt tactics.

[john]

The best way to insure that these bastards are judged fairly is to send them to God and let them be judged fairly by Him ...and make sure they get a speedy trial..send them all soon..

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Skunk: quote: Unfortunately, the use of CS Gas goes against the rules of war and the Geneva Convention

I thought that the was over and that, therefore, the Geneva Convention on the rules of engagement doesn't apply? (not that flouting the Geneva Convention is something that worries the current administration, ie GM Bay)... [/QUOTE]Just because the major fighting is over doesn't mean that we will stop following the Geneva Convention. Where on earth did you ever get that idea?

I personally don't have a problem with Gitmo. During WWII German POW's were housed in Crossville, Tennessee. What's the difference? I understand they even have AC now. Besides, I doubt very seriously that you would like any of those prisoners running around the Netherlands, now would you? What makes you think anyone else wants them? I bet the Karzi Government isn't looking forward to most of them coming back for quite sometime.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by johnny: i just feel some kind of relief that those two are no longer among us.

why?