Sex Before Marriage - Page 7

Cerek the Barbaric · 02-04-2002, 11:04 AM

Lavindathar,

Sorry it took so long. This is the only Bible passage I can find that specifically relates to sex and marriage. As you can see, it admonishes the person to avoid adultery, but doesn't address the issue of pre-marital sex. Hope this - and the other Posts - helps answer the question for yourself anyway.

Proverbs 5:15-23
15 Drink water from your own well – share your love only with your wife. F10 16 Why spill the water of your springs in public, having sex with just anyone? F11 17 You should reserve it for yourselves. Don't share it with strangers. 18 Let your wife be a fountain of blessing for you. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19 She is a loving doe, a graceful deer. Let her breasts satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. 20 Why be captivated, my son, with an immoral woman, or embrace the breasts of an adulterous woman? 21 For the LORD sees clearly what a man does, examining every path he takes. 22 An evil man is held captive by his own sins; they are ropes that catch and hold him. 23 He will die for lack of self-control; he will be lost because of his incredible folly.

Wolfgir

I just want to address a quibble with your previous Post. Jesus WAS without sin, otherwise He could not have died for our sins. I had heard the same thing (that Jesus did sin) in Sunday School when I was young and believed it for years. Then a good friend of mine explained why it was not correct.

It may or may not be an important point in your view (and that's fine, either way), but it's one of the cornerstones of the Christian Faith.

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

02-04-2002, 01:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
Lavindathar,
Proverbs 5:15-23
15 Drink water from your own well – share your love only with your wife. F10 16 Why spill the water of your springs in public, having sex with just anyone? F11 17 You should reserve it for yourselves. Don't share it with strangers. 18 Let your wife be a fountain of blessing for you. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19 She is a loving doe, a graceful deer. Let her breasts satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. 20 Why be captivated, my son, with an immoral woman, or embrace the breasts of an adulterous woman? 21 For the LORD sees clearly what a man does, examining every path he takes. 22 An evil man is held captive by his own sins; they are ropes that catch and hold him. 23 He will die for lack of self-control; he will be lost because of his incredible folly.

exactly. the only references I knew of were:

don't cheat on your wife (the reference you mentioned)
don't cuckold another man's wife (the commandment)

Sir Taliesin · 02-04-2002, 02:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by AzureWolf:
If someone wants to do it then go ahead its not the end of the world. It CAN cause problems if not done in a sensible manner ie no protection.
No offence Larry but I dont know ANYONE in r/l who has not had sex before marrige. If they want to its their choice.

I quite agree with your statement. have read through the Old Testement, just recently (currently in Mathew), I can't really pin point any set rule that one should not have sexual relations before marriage. Other than those the where posted above. But I found those to be somewhat ambiguous. I think (and this is my own opinion here) that it was a rule that was set down because back in the old days (pre-contraception) single women having babies wasn't a good thing, since women had limited economic choices. Now that's not necessarily the case (at lest in most developed countries). Though it's still puts a tremendous burden on all involved (i.e. parents, grandparents, local, state and federal governments).

On the the last part of your above quote, I know several couples that have waited til they were married. I know singles (both sexes) that still haven't did the "big nasty". I personally admire them. I wish I had waited. I can say that now, looking back on 13 years of marriage and two kids with one more on the way (yes this is the big announcement, we are expecting another one in Sept.). It's one of the few regrets I have in life (I normally don't believe in regrets; what's past is past), not saving myself for my wife. My sex life prior to getting married doesn't hold a candle to what I have now, and I thought I had a fairly healthy sex life prior to my relationship with my wife.

Just a thought, that's all.

Also in answer to Tarox's post about all the new and weirds religions coming from the US. You need to get out more! Don't know where you got that from, but that not really the case. As far as the number of new religions goes, we are a fairly tolorate country and we don't FORCE anyone to proscribe to one religion, unlike other countries. If you want to be a Pagan, Wiccan, Catholic, Muslim, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, Morman, or whatever, even an Athesist, you have that right in the US. It's the First Amendment in our Bill of Rights. Here's a link encase you haven't read them or our Constitution http://navigation.helper.realnames.c...2Fexhall%2Fcha rters%2Fbillrights%2Fbillmain%2Ehtml.

WOLFGIR · 02-04-2002, 03:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:

Wolfgir

I just want to address a quibble with your previous Post. Jesus WAS without sin, otherwise He could not have died for our sins. I had heard the same thing (that Jesus did sin) in Sunday School when I was young and believed it for years. Then a good friend of mine explained why it was not correct.

It may or may not be an important point in your view (and that's fine, either way), but it's one of the cornerstones of the Christian Faith.

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

Oki, well in your view (not a degrading thing, this is from pure interest, does the event spoke of when Jesus tells the people that he who is without sin should cast the first stone?

In my view as only "reading" the bible, I felt like Jesus either showed alot of mercy or that he to had done some sins, but that as long as you did the right thing and forgave people and asked for forgiveness to both god and the one you had commited the sin against their was a solution..

And no Cerek, it is not an important part of my view, but since you posted about it I became interested in learning more from your point of view and I hope (paranoia posting) that I haven´t been offending or anything, I question because I am curious, and I have always found your posts very accurate and also with good information. So if you would like to tell me more, please do, either here or by mail!

Cheers!

Angel · 02-04-2002, 03:46 PM

i feel like I am being preached to here... feels really awkward reading this post

So many long posts! No fun!
I think we should have more fun! chill out! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

What do I think? I think sex before marriage is okay as long as it's nothing forced or awkward... u know... *makes face*

Beaumanoir · 02-04-2002, 03:50 PM

Yes, Agree. I Think That Sex Before Marrige Is Ok As Long As Both People Feel That It Is Ok, And That They Think It Isn't Too Soon

Angel · 02-04-2002, 05:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Beaumanoir:
Yes, Agree. I Think That Sex Before Marrige Is Ok As Long As Both People Feel That It Is Ok, And That They Think It Isn't Too Soon

Yep mutual agreement is the best policy me thinks *nodz*

Durwyn · 02-04-2002, 05:51 PM

Well the Christian Orthodox Bible says that you indeed cannot have sex before marriage. And well I tell ya from my experience hardly any Chiristian-Orthodox follow that rule

.

You know this question has already been brought up not long ago, but in anycase our world is so futurized now that not many follow the Bible :/.

02-04-2002, 05:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Angel:

Yep mutual agreement is the best policy me thinks *nodz*

huzzah!!! now everybody can bonk in harmony [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Yorick · 02-04-2002, 06:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Lavindathar:
I'm in a heated argument:

Does the bible say either

i) if you have sex you are married in the eyes of god? (my friends opinion, who IS religious)

or

ii)you shouldnt have sex until your married (my opinion, not really religious)

and what are your opinions!!??

Lavindathar, I haven't read all the replies yet, but I will seek to give my opinion on your question.

There is nothing in the bible that says if you have sex you are then married.

Jesus defines marriage as three things:

1.A couple living together in their own home.
2.Having Sex
3."Cleaving together". Growing as one emotionally.

The last effect is something which takes much time. I wouldn't say that a bride and groom are completely married just after the wedding ceremony, as the cleaving can take years. The ceremony is really a public statement of intent, declaration of vows and a celebration. It's not a mystical spiritual union in my opinion. That is a wonderful process that gradually occurs.

Regarding sex outside marriage, I would say that sex before marriage is like opening your christmas presents before christmas day.

It's not the end of the world, but you've gone and buggered up what could have been a wonderful situation.

Sex creates an intimate connection with another human. It's also a gift of yourself you give to your partner, and that they give to you. It's also something that gets better the more you know the other person, and become more comfortable with each other. To have only have given yourself to the one person, the one you spend your life with, raises sexual union to a very special place between you and your partner. Sharing it around removes that specialness.

My experience was that neither I or my wife were virgins when we were married. It was a regret both of us shared as we grew closer together. Finding things that we hadn't done with others became important to us. Gave each of us something uniquely 'ours'.

Thus, the sex I had with my wife got better and better, and totally blew away anything I've ever had with anyone else.

Even so, the knowledge of a previous partner can create insecurities in some. Comparisons can be hard to avoid. Reassurances become increasingly important for some, and highlight the importance of trust and being comfortable with the other person, in order to have great sex.

If I had the knowledge of what I know, when I was younger, I would have saved myself. Indisputably.

You can't put an old head on young shoulders though, and we all make mistakes. It's not worth cutting yourself up over imperfection.

So in summary I go back to my initial statement on sex before marriage which is that it's like opening your christmas present before christmas. Not the end of the world, but something you can never 'put back in the box and forget you'd seen' once you've opened it.

Now for a real conundrum: sex after marriage??

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Yorick ]

02-04-2002, 11:04 AM	#61
Cerek the Barbaric Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 29, 2001 Location: North Carolina Age: 61 Posts: 3,257	Lavindathar, Sorry it took so long. This is the only Bible passage I can find that specifically relates to sex and marriage. As you can see, it admonishes the person to avoid adultery, but doesn't address the issue of pre-marital sex. Hope this - and the other Posts - helps answer the question for yourself anyway. Proverbs 5:15-23 15 Drink water from your own well – share your love only with your wife. F10 16 Why spill the water of your springs in public, having sex with just anyone? F11 17 You should reserve it for yourselves. Don't share it with strangers. 18 Let your wife be a fountain of blessing for you. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19 She is a loving doe, a graceful deer. Let her breasts satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. 20 Why be captivated, my son, with an immoral woman, or embrace the breasts of an adulterous woman? 21 For the LORD sees clearly what a man does, examining every path he takes. 22 An evil man is held captive by his own sins; they are ropes that catch and hold him. 23 He will die for lack of self-control; he will be lost because of his incredible folly. Wolfgir I just want to address a quibble with your previous Post. Jesus WAS without sin, otherwise He could not have died for our sins. I had heard the same thing (that Jesus did sin) in Sunday School when I was young and believed it for years. Then a good friend of mine explained why it was not correct. It may or may not be an important point in your view (and that's fine, either way), but it's one of the cornerstones of the Christian Faith. [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ] __________________ [img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth

02-04-2002, 01:38 PM	#62
Lord Shield Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: Lavindathar, Proverbs 5:15-23 15 Drink water from your own well – share your love only with your wife. F10 16 Why spill the water of your springs in public, having sex with just anyone? F11 17 You should reserve it for yourselves. Don't share it with strangers. 18 Let your wife be a fountain of blessing for you. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19 She is a loving doe, a graceful deer. Let her breasts satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. 20 Why be captivated, my son, with an immoral woman, or embrace the breasts of an adulterous woman? 21 For the LORD sees clearly what a man does, examining every path he takes. 22 An evil man is held captive by his own sins; they are ropes that catch and hold him. 23 He will die for lack of self-control; he will be lost because of his incredible folly. exactly. the only references I knew of were: don't cheat on your wife (the reference you mentioned) don't cuckold another man's wife (the commandment)

02-04-2002, 02:01 PM	#63
Sir Taliesin Silver Dragon Join Date: March 4, 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN USA Age: 61 Posts: 1,641	quote: Originally posted by AzureWolf: If someone wants to do it then go ahead its not the end of the world. It CAN cause problems if not done in a sensible manner ie no protection. No offence Larry but I dont know ANYONE in r/l who has not had sex before marrige. If they want to its their choice. I quite agree with your statement. have read through the Old Testement, just recently (currently in Mathew), I can't really pin point any set rule that one should not have sexual relations before marriage. Other than those the where posted above. But I found those to be somewhat ambiguous. I think (and this is my own opinion here) that it was a rule that was set down because back in the old days (pre-contraception) single women having babies wasn't a good thing, since women had limited economic choices. Now that's not necessarily the case (at lest in most developed countries). Though it's still puts a tremendous burden on all involved (i.e. parents, grandparents, local, state and federal governments). On the the last part of your above quote, I know several couples that have waited til they were married. I know singles (both sexes) that still haven't did the "big nasty". I personally admire them. I wish I had waited. I can say that now, looking back on 13 years of marriage and two kids with one more on the way (yes this is the big announcement, we are expecting another one in Sept.). It's one of the few regrets I have in life (I normally don't believe in regrets; what's past is past), not saving myself for my wife. My sex life prior to getting married doesn't hold a candle to what I have now, and I thought I had a fairly healthy sex life prior to my relationship with my wife. Just a thought, that's all. Also in answer to Tarox's post about all the new and weirds religions coming from the US. You need to get out more! Don't know where you got that from, but that not really the case. As far as the number of new religions goes, we are a fairly tolorate country and we don't FORCE anyone to proscribe to one religion, unlike other countries. If you want to be a Pagan, Wiccan, Catholic, Muslim, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, Morman, or whatever, even an Athesist, you have that right in the US. It's the First Amendment in our Bill of Rights. Here's a link encase you haven't read them or our Constitution http://navigation.helper.realnames.c...2Fexhall%2Fcha rters%2Fbillrights%2Fbillmain%2Ehtml. __________________ Sir Taliesin<br /><br />Hello... Good bye.

02-04-2002, 03:04 PM	#64
WOLFGIR Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Sweden Age: 50 Posts: 3,450	quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: Wolfgir I just want to address a quibble with your previous Post. Jesus WAS without sin, otherwise He could not have died for our sins. I had heard the same thing (that Jesus did sin) in Sunday School when I was young and believed it for years. Then a good friend of mine explained why it was not correct. It may or may not be an important point in your view (and that's fine, either way), but it's one of the cornerstones of the Christian Faith. [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ] Oki, well in your view (not a degrading thing, this is from pure interest, does the event spoke of when Jesus tells the people that he who is without sin should cast the first stone? In my view as only "reading" the bible, I felt like Jesus either showed alot of mercy or that he to had done some sins, but that as long as you did the right thing and forgave people and asked for forgiveness to both god and the one you had commited the sin against their was a solution.. And no Cerek, it is not an important part of my view, but since you posted about it I became interested in learning more from your point of view and I hope (paranoia posting) that I haven´t been offending or anything, I question because I am curious, and I have always found your posts very accurate and also with good information. So if you would like to tell me more, please do, either here or by mail! Cheers! __________________ Don´t eat the yellow snow

02-04-2002, 03:46 PM	#65
Angel Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: February 3, 2002 Location: Cornwall, England Posts: 24	i feel like I am being preached to here... feels really awkward reading this post So many long posts! No fun! I think we should have more fun! chill out! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] What do I think? I think sex before marriage is okay as long as it's nothing forced or awkward... u know... makes face __________________ -giggles- I love you all!

02-04-2002, 03:50 PM	#66
Beaumanoir Iron Throne Cult Join Date: June 3, 2001 Location: There is no IRL, Only AFK. Age: 35 Posts: 4,896	Yes, Agree. I Think That Sex Before Marrige Is Ok As Long As Both People Feel That It Is Ok, And That They Think It Isn't Too Soon __________________ My pokemon bring all the boys to the yard, and they're like; you wanna trade cards? Damn right, I wanna trade cards, I'll trade this but not my Charizard.

02-04-2002, 05:34 PM	#67
Angel Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: February 3, 2002 Location: Cornwall, England Posts: 24	quote: Originally posted by Beaumanoir: Yes, Agree. I Think That Sex Before Marrige Is Ok As Long As Both People Feel That It Is Ok, And That They Think It Isn't Too Soon Yep mutual agreement is the best policy me thinks nodz __________________ -giggles- I love you all!

02-04-2002, 05:51 PM	#68
Durwyn Elminster Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: New York Posts: 415	Well the Christian Orthodox Bible says that you indeed cannot have sex before marriage. And well I tell ya from my experience hardly any Chiristian-Orthodox follow that rule . You know this question has already been brought up not long ago, but in anycase our world is so futurized now that not many follow the Bible :/. __________________ <b>-Durwyn Foehammer</b><p><i>\"Don\'t you go a-meddling with old stone or cold wights or prying in their houses, unless you be strong folk with hearts that never faulter.\"</i> - J.R.R. Tolkien

02-04-2002, 05:58 PM	#69
Lord Shield Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Angel: Yep mutual agreement is the best policy me thinks nodz huzzah!!! now everybody can bonk in harmony [img]tongue.gif[/img]

02-04-2002, 06:49 PM	#70
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 52 Posts: 9,246	quote: Originally posted by Lavindathar: I'm in a heated argument: Does the bible say either i) if you have sex you are married in the eyes of god? (my friends opinion, who IS religious) or ii)you shouldnt have sex until your married (my opinion, not really religious) and what are your opinions!!?? Lavindathar, I haven't read all the replies yet, but I will seek to give my opinion on your question. There is nothing in the bible that says if you have sex you are then married. Jesus defines marriage as three things: 1.A couple living together in their own home. 2.Having Sex 3."Cleaving together". Growing as one emotionally. The last effect is something which takes much time. I wouldn't say that a bride and groom are completely married just after the wedding ceremony, as the cleaving can take years. The ceremony is really a public statement of intent, declaration of vows and a celebration. It's not a mystical spiritual union in my opinion. That is a wonderful process that gradually occurs. Regarding sex outside marriage, I would say that sex before marriage is like opening your christmas presents before christmas day. It's not the end of the world, but you've gone and buggered up what could have been a wonderful situation. Sex creates an intimate connection with another human. It's also a gift of yourself you give to your partner, and that they give to you. It's also something that gets better the more you know the other person, and become more comfortable with each other. To have only have given yourself to the one person, the one you spend your life with, raises sexual union to a very special place between you and your partner. Sharing it around removes that specialness. My experience was that neither I or my wife were virgins when we were married. It was a regret both of us shared as we grew closer together. Finding things that we hadn't done with others became important to us. Gave each of us something uniquely 'ours'. Thus, the sex I had with my wife got better and better, and totally blew away anything I've ever had with anyone else. Even so, the knowledge of a previous partner can create insecurities in some. Comparisons can be hard to avoid. Reassurances become increasingly important for some, and highlight the importance of trust and being comfortable with the other person, in order to have great sex. If I had the knowledge of what I know, when I was younger, I would have saved myself. Indisputably. You can't put an old head on young shoulders though, and we all make mistakes. It's not worth cutting yourself up over imperfection. So in summary I go back to my initial statement on sex before marriage which is that it's like opening your christmas present before christmas. Not the end of the world, but something you can never 'put back in the box and forget you'd seen' once you've opened it. Now for a real conundrum: sex after marriage?? [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Yorick ] __________________ http://www.hughwilson.com

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