Matrix:Reloaded Review Comments..SPOILERS!!!!!!!

[Timber Loftis]

MagiK and Vaskez, I meant Neo is really part machine. He has a cyberjack in the back of his freaking skull!! He can download programs into his brain. Trinity is always getting this helicopter pilot's program or that hacking program down loaded. (She's so cute when she's computing )

Lookout world, Azred's gone Godel on us!!! I keep meaning to pick up a copy of Godel Escher Bach -- oh well, off topic. Sorry.

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3" color="#f683ad">
[img]graemlins/doh.gif[/img] Duh TL, ya know that cyberjack completely slipped my mind [img]smile.gif[/img] by that standard though pretty much every human in the movie is part machine [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

[Vaskez]

Ooh! Ooh! I have another question:

Did they ever explain why Neo et al can only exit The Matrix via telephones? Not through mobile phones, not through simply thought (I mean they should be able to IMO since they KNOW it's not real), but only through fixed-line phones...
or is this something obvious I've missed?

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Vaskez: Ooh! Ooh! I have another question: Did they ever explain why Neo et al can only exit The Matrix via telephones? Not through mobile phones, not through simply thought (I mean they should be able to IMO since they KNOW it's not real), but only through fixed-line phones... or is this something obvious I've missed?

<font color=deepskyblue>That is easy to answer, <font color=red>Vaskez</font>. Accessing the Matrix is just like accessing the internet....it requires a physical connection. Since modems are the most popular form of internet access, it makes sense that the humans would have to use actual phone lines to "access" the matrix.

To use a "real world" example....let's suppose I had the ability to alter the rules of NeverWinter Nights in the middle of a game. I might be able to kill dragons with a snap of my fingers and blow over buildings like the big bad wolf...but I would STILL have to use my modem to connect to the internet before I could begin this outrageous re-vamping of the rules.

In the Matrix, it does NOT matter whether the "real world" IS real or is yet another Matrix - a physical connection is still required to "travel" from one to the other.</font>

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: <font color=deepskyblue>That is easy to answer, <font color=red>Vaskez</font>. Accessing the Matrix is just like accessing the internet....it requires a physical connection. Since modems are the most popular form of internet access, it makes sense that the humans would have to use actual phone lines to "access" the matrix. To use a "real world" example....let's suppose I had the ability to alter the rules of NeverWinter Nights in the middle of a game. I might be able to kill dragons with a snap of my fingers and blow over buildings like the big bad wolf...but I would STILL have to use my modem to connect to the internet before I could begin this outrageous re-vamping of the rules. In the Matrix, it does NOT matter whether the "real world" IS real or is yet another Matrix - a physical connection is still required to "travel" from one to the other.</font>

It makes sense that they should require the physical connection to ENTER the Matrix as you say. However I don't agree with your last paragraph. Since the Matrix is NOT the real world, you should just be able to quit it by disconnecting. I.e. I don't think being forcefully unplugged should kill you, it should just remove your physical link with the Matrix. I know, I know: they explain that your mind is still in the Matrix unless you leave it properly and the body can't live w/o the mind but I don't think this is "realistic" no matter how immersed you are in simulation, would you die just because you are suddenly and forcefully removed? You'd be shocked, sure... This also brings me back to my other point about being able to come out of the Matrix by thought alone: I guess having thought about it I agree that simply coming out by thought may be impossible if your physical link is still there, so using telephones tricks the mind into thinking that the physical link has gone, but someone as powerful as Neo should be able to come out of the Matrix by thought alone, no?

[Timber Loftis]

To use the "die in a dream" comparrison, if Neo can survive death in the Matrix, he should be able to survive an unplugging.

It still strikes me that Neo's precognition occured outside the Matrix. What do you guys make of this? We touched on it a bit before, but c'mon -- he was dead on in his very detailed dream.

[Azred]

<font color = lightgreen>Timber, "Godel, Escher, Bach" is an amazing book, but an incredibly difficult read the first time through. My suggestion: read it once (even if it takes you months to do so), put it back on the shelf and don't think about it for a year, then read it again. I really should pick it up again (which would make the third time for me).

Neo's dream was very detailed because, as Jon Ostermann (you know who he is, I'm sure) says, "time is a jewel that humans insist upon seeing only one face at a time". That is, those events had already happened, we just weren't at that point in time yet. Would she have been in that situation had he not seen it first? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] Besides, he has a vision of events inside the Matrix while he is outside because 1) the events involve Trinity in the real world (impending death) and 2) he has a connection to machines/the Matrix that he hasn't yet realized. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] </font>

[ 05-23-2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Azred ]

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: To use the "die in a dream" comparrison, if Neo can survive death in the Matrix, he should be able to survive an unplugging.

That's what I just said, glad we agree [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Azred]

<font color = lightgreen>Now to touch on something I asked in my last post. Neo sees Trinity falling, so he becomes worried about her safety. When the time comes for the attack on the power station, he asks her to stay behind, which she does. However, Bane (influenced by Smith) destroys the ship containing the team shutting down the power. Obviously, someone needs to shut down the grid--that someone is Trinity. Had she gone with Morpheus and Neo, she wouldn't have been able to shut down the grid, which is when she meets the Agent and jumps out the window.
What this means is that because Neo saw her falling, he puts her into the situation where she jumps out the window. It's like dreaming about having a car wreck and being so nervous while driving that you get into a wreck. Self-fulfilling prophecy. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] </font>

[Barry the Sprout]

All correct I believe Azred, but one minor problem. I don't think it was Bane that caused the destruction of Soron's ship - remember at the Council meeting he was asking his captain if their ship could be one of the volunteers? The captain said no. Bane's ship was no where near at the time - it was involved in the defence of Zion, something that took place on a different "level" underground the Earth than broadcasting into the Matrix did. I think it must have been simply a machine attack that destroyed Soron's ship, Bane caused the early failure of a particular section of the defending army - but not the death of Trinity.

And I'm still wondering why he did this. The prevailing theory appears to be that Smith/Bane is a free agent, that he wants something more. Even the Oracle seems to agree with this: "What do all powerful beings want? More Power.". Maybe he wants to be the Architect, or maybe he wants to wipe out all humans. I always thought he wanted to get out of the Matrix (due to "the smell" [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img] ), but how does that fit in with what he is now? Smith intrigues me greatly... the more I think about him the less I understand him...