Imoen Same-Sex Romance - Page 7

02-19-2002, 05:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gabriel:
I know this is touched on already and people have desired that everyone has there own ideals but I like to ask how exactly raping Imoen fitted in Jon plans?
He did not desire to break here sprite because it would not of severed his cause, a broken child of Bhaal will not feel the blood lust needed to start the powers. As for the knives and such that, even thought it was, in his mind torture as he did it to both Jheria and Minsc, probably Khild and Daynia as well. It was a test to see if the person was a Bhaal child. After like in the Khild experiment he tried to bring her to be fascinated with death.
And in the speech of the Dryads they said they WERE his concubines and imply he had stopped using them.
And on Spell hold he just ripped her soul from her body by magic, the test on the inmates were probably to see if the instability was due to a Bhall essence.
As for the whole incest bit the Parent was a god and half the time their not even the same speices.

Oh yea... thats just what he WANTS you to think!

Galadria · 02-19-2002, 05:54 PM

Gabriel, as I've said before, but don't mind repeating, Irenicus used torture on Imoen (she says many times that he did). I (and others) feel that rape would be one of them that he would use to break her spirit. He says that he had to "show her many dark things indeed," because her spirit was so glad. Does that sound like he was not trying to break her spirit? Anyway, he was just using her to lure the Bhaalspawn to him. He didn't want Imoen's soul for himself, just for Bodhi.
Mortis, hopefully this will be downloadable so that you can transfer it to your BGII-SoA Override folder. But it's a long way from that point as yet.

Gabriel · 02-19-2002, 06:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Galadria:
[QB]Gabriel, as I've said before, but don't mind repeating, Irenicus used torture on Imoen (she says many times that he did). I (and others) feel that rape would be one of them that he would use to break her spirit. He says that he had to "show her many dark things indeed," because her spirit was so glad. Does that sound like he was not trying to break her spirit? Anyway, he was just using her to lure the Bhaalspawn to him. He didn't want Imoen's soul for himself, just for Bodhi.
[QB]

It was only torture when the group member mentions it, HE calls it experments. He was testing the powers of the Bhaal child.
Also the qoute used is 'He showed her many dark things.' The only act mentioned are the knives and making her watch Khilds body being cut up or the tour of the taked bodies all in turn dark things. From all the game text, it seem that he was not trying to break her just make her facited with death or the darker side of existance, which would whole up her comment that death was pretty when you pull the plug on the guy in the tank, probaly in an attemt to bring her Bhall powers forward for enjoying death will only bring the ideal of murder forwards and so avative the powers. (This is taking that your character desire to kill Sav' awoke your powers. As he did not do this to you.)
The breaking of the spirit is not nessecy as he did not do it to you or even try.

Nifft the Nimble · 02-19-2002, 06:30 PM

Jon had to "bring out the darkness" within Imoen before he could get to her Bhaal essense. He had to awaken her blood. He says something like, "I had to show her some very dark shadows, indeed."

Anyway, there is no reason to think that he would be above raping Imoen, if he thought that doing so would serve his purpose.

Poor, sweet little Immy. I can't wait to console her trembling body ...

-- Nifft

Gabriel · 02-19-2002, 06:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Nifft the Nimble:
Jon had to "bring out the darkness" within Imoen before he could get to her Bhaal essense. He had to awaken her blood. He says something like, "I had to show her some very dark shadows, indeed."

Anyway, there is no reason to think that he would be above raping Imoen, if he thought that doing so would serve his purpose.

Poor, sweet little Immy. I can't wait to console her trembling body ...

-- Nifft

But he didn't do it to you and it wouldn't bring out here darkness like teaching her to enjoy death. It would more make her closed in with drawn but teaching her to like death and in turn murder.
Besides rape involes some emotion Jon feels only cold hate to toward Ellesmie his great love.
Besides, would he really do something like that himself, IF he found it nessicy he would leave it to his servents.

Nifft the Nimble · 02-19-2002, 06:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gabriel:

But he didn't do it to you and it wouldn't bring out here darkness like teaching her to enjoy death. It would more make her closed in with drawn but teaching her to like death and in turn murder.
Besides rape involes some emotion Jon feels only cold hate to toward Ellesmie his great love.
Besides, would he really do something like that himself, IF he found it nessicy he would leave it to his servents.

Well, you're already *aware* as he puts it. Your blood doesn't have to be awakened. You are already prepared to be soul-sucked.

Most of his servents seem to be golems. Jan's uncle's book about erotic arts of the flesh golem notwithstanding, I doubt they have the equipment, if you take my meaning.

Teaching someone to hate her body, her weakness and herself is pretty dark if you ask me ... degrading someone by rape is one way to accomplish that foul goal.

-- Nifft, friend of too many victims

Gabriel · 02-19-2002, 06:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Nifft the Nimble:

Well, you're already *aware* as he puts it. Your blood doesn't have to be awakened. You are already prepared to be soul-sucked.

Most of his servents seem to be golems. Jan's uncle's book about erotic arts of the flesh golem notwithstanding, I doubt they have the equipment, if you take my meaning.

Teaching someone to hate her body, her weakness and herself is pretty dark if you ask me ... degrading someone by rape is one way to accomplish that foul goal.

-- Nifft, friend of too many victims

He got the dwaves and the vamp's remember or loki the sane and shadow thieves and the murders that help Yoshi if it happens on spellhold.
Besides she was experinced the same you have killed the same you have done the same you have and your character doesn't hate him/her self.
The only thing that stopped is her cheery personality but being bombarded with death will destory a good mood just as well as rape by with out the conqunices of self denial self hate and memory blocking that would only make more walls.
Also when speaking with other Bhaal it sounds like they experinced some acts of death that brought their powers forth, the guy who talks about rebuition enjoyed killing, teleportor dude is running from those who kill Bhaal Childs and the list goes on.

Galadria · 02-19-2002, 07:03 PM

I cannot say it too many times. Rape is a crime of control and degradation. Gabriel, why do you take such a foul man's word that he only thought of it as an experiment. He also says that "She clings to her old life, like it matters." He knows full well, and says outright, that both you and Imoen will wither away and die without your soul. Bodhi even taunts you with it. "Where is Imoen, has she withered away, yet." I cannot believe that so many people think that rape was beneath so foul a creature.

Gabriel · 02-19-2002, 07:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Galadria:
I cannot say it too many times. Rape is a crime of control and degradation. Gabriel, why do you take such a foul man's word that he only thought of it as an experiment. He also says that "She clings to her old life, like it matters." He knows full well, and says outright, that both you and Imoen will wither away and die without your soul. Bodhi even taunts you with it. "Where is Imoen, has she withered away, yet." I cannot believe that so many people think that rape was beneath so foul a creature.

I never said it was below him just that I can understand and still don't see what perpose it would serve him. (It would serve his purpose more if he ordered some one to do it more and made her watch while he killed him slowly in my oppion.)
Anyway it your your script and I however good it sound I think I'll wait to one that make more sense to me comes out.

Galadria · 02-19-2002, 07:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Absynthe:
Galadria, after being away from the forums for quite a while, I come back to find you working on something I've wanted in the game since BG I! Fantastic!
For my part, I fiddled with the romance variables to get my lead character, a half-elf female ranger, hooked up with Jaheira. It worked tolerably well so far ( I haven't finished the game yet) but there were numerous annoying little inconsistencies. It sounds like the expansion you're working on will really give this game the depth of interpersonal intensity I was hoping for.
It is sad, yet understandable, that some things were probably unapproachable for the dev team due to marketing concerns. I'm very happy that you're pursuing this, and I hope it all goes well.
For what it's worth, although Anomen's character is necessary as a foil, he irritates the hell out of me. Modelled on far too many men that I have met.

Absynthe, amid all the shouting, I forgot to thank you for your very sweet compliment. It need not be said that I agree totally.

02-19-2002, 05:53 PM	#61
Wedin Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Gabriel: I know this is touched on already and people have desired that everyone has there own ideals but I like to ask how exactly raping Imoen fitted in Jon plans? He did not desire to break here sprite because it would not of severed his cause, a broken child of Bhaal will not feel the blood lust needed to start the powers. As for the knives and such that, even thought it was, in his mind torture as he did it to both Jheria and Minsc, probably Khild and Daynia as well. It was a test to see if the person was a Bhaal child. After like in the Khild experiment he tried to bring her to be fascinated with death. And in the speech of the Dryads they said they WERE his concubines and imply he had stopped using them. And on Spell hold he just ripped her soul from her body by magic, the test on the inmates were probably to see if the instability was due to a Bhall essence. As for the whole incest bit the Parent was a god and half the time their not even the same speices. Oh yea... thats just what he WANTS you to think!

02-19-2002, 05:54 PM	#62
Galadria 20th Level Warrior Join Date: November 3, 2001 Location: Texas Age: 55 Posts: 2,830	Gabriel, as I've said before, but don't mind repeating, Irenicus used torture on Imoen (she says many times that he did). I (and others) feel that rape would be one of them that he would use to break her spirit. He says that he had to "show her many dark things indeed," because her spirit was so glad. Does that sound like he was not trying to break her spirit? Anyway, he was just using her to lure the Bhaalspawn to him. He didn't want Imoen's soul for himself, just for Bodhi. Mortis, hopefully this will be downloadable so that you can transfer it to your BGII-SoA Override folder. But it's a long way from that point as yet. __________________ Lady Galadria,Goddess\' Equal of the O.R.T.; [img]\"http://havak.db-forge.com/portraits/bitmaps/wlf180L.bmp\" alt=\" - \" /><br />\"Romance at short notice was her specialty.\" - Saki <br />Founder of the IW Branch of the Anti-Anomen Society

02-19-2002, 06:23 PM	#63
Gabriel Emerald Dragon Join Date: March 4, 2001 Location: England Age: 42 Posts: 920	quote: Originally posted by Galadria: [QB]Gabriel, as I've said before, but don't mind repeating, Irenicus used torture on Imoen (she says many times that he did). I (and others) feel that rape would be one of them that he would use to break her spirit. He says that he had to "show her many dark things indeed," because her spirit was so glad. Does that sound like he was not trying to break her spirit? Anyway, he was just using her to lure the Bhaalspawn to him. He didn't want Imoen's soul for himself, just for Bodhi. [QB] It was only torture when the group member mentions it, HE calls it experments. He was testing the powers of the Bhaal child. Also the qoute used is 'He showed her many dark things.' The only act mentioned are the knives and making her watch Khilds body being cut up or the tour of the taked bodies all in turn dark things. From all the game text, it seem that he was not trying to break her just make her facited with death or the darker side of existance, which would whole up her comment that death was pretty when you pull the plug on the guy in the tank, probaly in an attemt to bring her Bhall powers forward for enjoying death will only bring the ideal of murder forwards and so avative the powers. (This is taking that your character desire to kill Sav' awoke your powers. As he did not do this to you.) The breaking of the spirit is not nessecy as he did not do it to you or even try.

02-19-2002, 06:39 PM	#65
Gabriel Emerald Dragon Join Date: March 4, 2001 Location: England Age: 42 Posts: 920	quote: Originally posted by Nifft the Nimble: Jon had to "bring out the darkness" within Imoen before he could get to her Bhaal essense. He had to awaken her blood. He says something like, "I had to show her some very dark shadows, indeed." Anyway, there is no reason to think that he would be above raping Imoen, if he thought that doing so would serve his purpose. Poor, sweet little Immy. I can't wait to console her trembling body ... -- Nifft But he didn't do it to you and it wouldn't bring out here darkness like teaching her to enjoy death. It would more make her closed in with drawn but teaching her to like death and in turn murder. Besides rape involes some emotion Jon feels only cold hate to toward Ellesmie his great love. Besides, would he really do something like that himself, IF he found it nessicy he would leave it to his servents.

02-19-2002, 06:46 PM	#66
Nifft the Nimble Avatar Join Date: October 4, 2001 Location: NYC Forever! Age: 50 Posts: 520	quote: Originally posted by Gabriel: But he didn't do it to you and it wouldn't bring out here darkness like teaching her to enjoy death. It would more make her closed in with drawn but teaching her to like death and in turn murder. Besides rape involes some emotion Jon feels only cold hate to toward Ellesmie his great love. Besides, would he really do something like that himself, IF he found it nessicy he would leave it to his servents. Well, you're already aware as he puts it. Your blood doesn't have to be awakened. You are already prepared to be soul-sucked. Most of his servents seem to be golems. Jan's uncle's book about erotic arts of the flesh golem notwithstanding, I doubt they have the equipment, if you take my meaning. Teaching someone to hate her body, her weakness and herself is pretty dark if you ask me ... degrading someone by rape is one way to accomplish that foul goal. -- Nifft, friend of too many victims

02-19-2002, 06:30 PM	#64
Nifft the Nimble Avatar Join Date: October 4, 2001 Location: NYC Forever! Age: 50 Posts: 520	Jon had to "bring out the darkness" within Imoen before he could get to her Bhaal essense. He had to awaken her blood. He says something like, "I had to show her some very dark shadows, indeed." Anyway, there is no reason to think that he would be above raping Imoen, if he thought that doing so would serve his purpose. Poor, sweet little Immy. I can't wait to console her trembling body ... -- Nifft

02-19-2002, 06:59 PM	#67
Gabriel Emerald Dragon Join Date: March 4, 2001 Location: England Age: 42 Posts: 920	quote: Originally posted by Nifft the Nimble: Well, you're already aware as he puts it. Your blood doesn't have to be awakened. You are already prepared to be soul-sucked. Most of his servents seem to be golems. Jan's uncle's book about erotic arts of the flesh golem notwithstanding, I doubt they have the equipment, if you take my meaning. Teaching someone to hate her body, her weakness and herself is pretty dark if you ask me ... degrading someone by rape is one way to accomplish that foul goal. -- Nifft, friend of too many victims He got the dwaves and the vamp's remember or loki the sane and shadow thieves and the murders that help Yoshi if it happens on spellhold. Besides she was experinced the same you have killed the same you have done the same you have and your character doesn't hate him/her self. The only thing that stopped is her cheery personality but being bombarded with death will destory a good mood just as well as rape by with out the conqunices of self denial self hate and memory blocking that would only make more walls. Also when speaking with other Bhaal it sounds like they experinced some acts of death that brought their powers forth, the guy who talks about rebuition enjoyed killing, teleportor dude is running from those who kill Bhaal Childs and the list goes on.

02-19-2002, 07:03 PM	#68
Galadria 20th Level Warrior Join Date: November 3, 2001 Location: Texas Age: 55 Posts: 2,830	I cannot say it too many times. Rape is a crime of control and degradation. Gabriel, why do you take such a foul man's word that he only thought of it as an experiment. He also says that "She clings to her old life, like it matters." He knows full well, and says outright, that both you and Imoen will wither away and die without your soul. Bodhi even taunts you with it. "Where is Imoen, has she withered away, yet." I cannot believe that so many people think that rape was beneath so foul a creature. __________________ Lady Galadria,Goddess\' Equal of the O.R.T.; [img]\"http://havak.db-forge.com/portraits/bitmaps/wlf180L.bmp\" alt=\" - \" /><br />\"Romance at short notice was her specialty.\" - Saki <br />Founder of the IW Branch of the Anti-Anomen Society

02-19-2002, 07:09 PM	#69
Gabriel Emerald Dragon Join Date: March 4, 2001 Location: England Age: 42 Posts: 920	quote: Originally posted by Galadria: I cannot say it too many times. Rape is a crime of control and degradation. Gabriel, why do you take such a foul man's word that he only thought of it as an experiment. He also says that "She clings to her old life, like it matters." He knows full well, and says outright, that both you and Imoen will wither away and die without your soul. Bodhi even taunts you with it. "Where is Imoen, has she withered away, yet." I cannot believe that so many people think that rape was beneath so foul a creature. I never said it was below him just that I can understand and still don't see what perpose it would serve him. (It would serve his purpose more if he ordered some one to do it more and made her watch while he killed him slowly in my oppion.) Anyway it your your script and I however good it sound I think I'll wait to one that make more sense to me comes out.

02-19-2002, 07:12 PM	#70
Galadria 20th Level Warrior Join Date: November 3, 2001 Location: Texas Age: 55 Posts: 2,830	quote: Originally posted by Absynthe: Galadria, after being away from the forums for quite a while, I come back to find you working on something I've wanted in the game since BG I! Fantastic! For my part, I fiddled with the romance variables to get my lead character, a half-elf female ranger, hooked up with Jaheira. It worked tolerably well so far ( I haven't finished the game yet) but there were numerous annoying little inconsistencies. It sounds like the expansion you're working on will really give this game the depth of interpersonal intensity I was hoping for. It is sad, yet understandable, that some things were probably unapproachable for the dev team due to marketing concerns. I'm very happy that you're pursuing this, and I hope it all goes well. For what it's worth, although Anomen's character is necessary as a foil, he irritates the hell out of me. Modelled on far too many men that I have met. Absynthe, amid all the shouting, I forgot to thank you for your very sweet compliment. It need not be said that I agree totally. __________________ Lady Galadria,Goddess\' Equal of the O.R.T.; [img]\"http://havak.db-forge.com/portraits/bitmaps/wlf180L.bmp\" alt=\" - \" /><br />\"Romance at short notice was her specialty.\" - Saki <br />Founder of the IW Branch of the Anti-Anomen Society

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