NPC ratings (spoilers)

[Assassin]

*sigh* Please note that not everyone here plays on Insane. In fact, if the poll is accurate (only 9 votes so far), Normal and Core users outnumber Insane users 2:1. In Insane, yes, Mages are the class to have. They're a powergamers wet dream. But in Core and Normal, it's far different. There, you don't need to have Ironskins and Stoneskin to survive. There, you don't need to be prebuffed to the max just to survive a battle. There, mistakes are allowed. Just buff up a bit, manage the battle well, and you'll win. Heck, Insane doesn't really do anything to make the enemies tougher. I daresay that I wouldn't know the difference in the game if I played with 6 Sorcerers, right?

Why don't I play Insane? Becuase like you said, only Sorcerers, Mages, and other select classes can compete. I like to play BG2 as a game, not as a bloody competition to see how many times I have to reload to avoid the a OHKO from someone. I like diversity in my parties. Maybe a Mage, Minsc, Haer, Yoshimo, Valygar, and Imoen. Maybe Anomen, Mazzy, Keldorn, Aerie, Cernd and an Archer. They're possible to play on Core. I don't want to have to play the exact same party with maybe two different NPCs.

Now, onto the discussion at hand. Haer can compete very, very well with the right equipment. Slap on a couple of ApR enhancing items, Off Spin him, and Imp Haste him. He'll waste. Korgan can plow through as well, though you don't need to babysit him as much. However, I have to give the edge to Haer here, just because I love the combo of PfMW and a series of Sunfires while they're crowding around him.

[ 07-15-2004, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Assassin ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Leslie: It is exactly the Stoneskin and PFMW that make the difference. Of course you can take that away but what's the point of them then? Maybe there is something I'm missing here but we can't have Haer fight Korgan without magic. That's his advantage. How about we take Korgan's hit points away then?

First of all, we are talking about Haer'Dalis facing Korgan in a mano-a-mano match. I never said Haer'Dalis could not use his magic - I just said he can't enter the fight with any PRE-CAST spells.

You're right that it wouldn't be fair to prohibit Haer'Dalis from casting his spells during the fight. However, it is just as unfair to allow him to cast all his pre-buff spells before he ever enters into the arena to fight Korgan (or any other NPC). That is simply how arena-style combat works. Two opponents walk in and the signal is given for the fight to start. Haer'Dalis has a choice of casting spells, firing missile weapons, or advancing to melee'. Casting Improved Invisibility or Stoneskin is a real good choice for his first spell since his opponent will usually not be within melee' range at the start of the fight. However, the opponent can always use missile weapons while advancing to melee' range in an attempt to disrupt Haer'Dalis casting.

And if the NPC combats took place within the game engine, I would expect them to be fought under Core Rules rather than Insane (unless both players agreed on the Insane setting).

You like to play on Insane - that's great. I think Normal and Core provide all the challenge I need. And if Insane is really the way Assassin described it, then I see no reason to ever try it. I also like a diverse party rather than a group of mega-buffed spellcasters. Just a personal choice.

[teardropmina]

Originally posted by Leslie: Hey, see what Pontifex does to Korgan in the first Time Stop? Terrible damage if not death. Haer on the other hand can just yawn under PFMW and wait for his time. He can kick Pontifex's ass with Carso, or Staff of The Magi or anything you want. He can use Robe of Vecna, Amulet of Power, yada, yada, ... What can Korgan do against that vorpal hitting dwarf who is one of Kangaxx's guardians? Die. Haer? PFMW and yawn while hitting the bad guy. Or he can cast Mislead just out the sight and chop him again with no trouble. What can Korgan do against Firkraag? He WILL be hit for sure and that's around 60-70 damage. Who do you think will last longer. Korgi or the big Red? Haer can go under PFMW and SI:Abj and keep all his protections on while hitting Firky and the big Red can wait for merciful death. I've beaten Improved Irenicus solo on Insane with a Blade. I don't think it can be done with a Berserker dwarf fighter.

how do all these prove or disprove Korgan's value as NPC? Do we solo Korgan or put him into a party? With a party, that vorpal hitting dwarf will be backstabbed to death by misled Jan or Imoen while Korgan flirting with Mazzy elsewhere. Firkraag wouldn't be able to hurt Korgan after three wizards and Jaheira render him moral failure while Korgan and the other fighter just whack him for free.
I've never played on Insane, let alone hard; so I need help here, honestly nobody ever played Korgan on Insane? I used to beat Improved Irenicus (on core of course) with this party: Mazzy, Korgan, Jaheira, F/M (PC), Edwin, and Aerie. In my victory, the imp. haste + potion of heroism Korgan definitely contributed and survived well. Now my question: does this party have no chance surviving the Insane improved Irenicus?

[SixOfSpades]

My, my, it appears that some people actually like Bards, and Haer'Dalis in particular. Now, Cerek, I'm not saying that trying to solo the game with a Bard is a fool's errand. Indeed, a Bard would likely have an easier time of it than a pure Fighter. But I should point out that the game has been successfully solo'ed with just about every class and kit--thereby proving that just because they can beat the game by themselves, does not mean that they do not suck in comparison to what else is out there.

Beating Improved Ilyich with a solo Skald is indeed one hell of an accomplishment. But how long did it take? I have never beaten it without Reloading, but I have always done it without Resting (except once, I think).

I believe I made my professional opinion of Bards quite clear a week or so ago: They are handicapped Mages with the fighting stats of a Thief, and the added capability to hold almost all types of weapons. That's it. Haer'Dalis can cast Stoneskin and PfMW? Hey, wow, so can a Mage! Haer'Dalis can dual-wield? Hey, wow, so can a Mage! Haer'Dalis can take Firkraag on one-on-one? Hey, wow, so can a Mage! And sooner, and more effectively, too.

I also notice that people are neglecting all the stuff that Fighters (such as Korgan) can do. I read things like
"Haer'Dalis casts Invisibility, what's Korgan going to do?" Well, how about
1) Read the Book of Infinite Spells (True Sight), or
2) Drink a Potion of Invisibility himself, or
3) Head straight for the nearest proper pub to wait for an opponent who doesn't fight like a bleedin' prickmedainty

"Haer'Dalis casts Stoneskins, what's Korgan going to do?"
1) Merrily pound away with Frostreaver and giggle at the poncy Bard's inability to hit anything with a decent AC
2) Whip out Ilbratha and show the twit that he can use defensive spells too
3) Fry the fool with a Potion of Firebreath (Have you read the Description on these things? 6D10 damage!)

"Haer'Dalis can Dual-wield, what can Korgan do?"
1) Uhhh......Dual-wield.

Now, how about some alternate scenarios....."Korgan uses Namarra to cast Silence 15' Radius, what's Haer'Dalis going to do?"
1) Run away
2) Drink an Invisibility potion
3) Flounder helplessly against Korgan's armor while wishing he'd memorized Vocalize, or that a Bard's Saving Throws were worth a damn

"The party is fighting Mind Flayers, what's Haer'Dalis going to do?"
1) Cast some Summons and try to stay the hell away from anything mindflayery
2) Get caught anywhere near a Psionic Blast (or Detonate, or Inflict Pain, or Project Force, or Psychic Drain) and die pretty much instantly
3) Cheese the hell out of Mislead and pray he's got enough PfMWs

And so on. Being a Tank does not just mean that you can hold your own in major fights like Dragon battles--it means that you can be on point, 24/7, stopping pretty much anything that moves, and hold your own in Dragon battles. Korgan need not fear pretty much anything other than Time Stop--he will always make his Save, he's got the hitpoints to suck up a double Horrid Wilting and stay in the bad guys' collective face, his Enrage makes him immune to all sorts of nasty stuff, and Haer'Dalis is far from the only NPC to be able to reap the benefits of Improved Haste.

Different strokes for different folks, of course. Dundee might feel the power balance leans more toward the Haer'Dalis side of the scale than I do, because that's his style: He's played his share of Solo Wizards and I have always played well-balanced parties.

By the way, I'm of the opinion that Hard and Insane difficulties do not apply. If you like Insane, good for you, and you have my respect for that, but don't act like those are the actual rules....or that they should be. Korgan and Mazzy can deal with Firkraag, Stone Golems, and Greater Mummies just fine on Core Rules.

Leslie, Korgan does just fine against Pontifex and the cheating vorpal Dwarf, provided you give him even a fraction of the prebuffs that people like Haer'Dalis can't even step out of bed without casting. He can take that hacked Yellow Dragon Scorching Sand with a quick shot of Ilbratha and Hardiness, or he could also just outrun it. And you speak of him vs. the Dwarf as if there was even the remotest chance that Korgan could ever fail a Save vs. Death.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Well well, it looks like Assassin was correct after all. And I would like to add that if we're pitting one NPC against another, we really *should* assume that the difficulty is on Core Rules. They're called the "Core Rules" for a reason.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

SixOfSpades - I fully respect your opinion and I felt you gave the most objective comparison of the various NPC's - giving legitimate consideration to the strengths and weaknesses each of them have.

As for the bard, I was actually stunned that I was able to beat Improved Illyich with a Solo Skald. I chose the Skald over the Bladesinger because I felt like +1 on ANY weapon ALL the time was a bigger advantage than the bonuses gained from an Offensive Spin. True, in a single battle, the O.S. beats the +1 of the Skald - but the O.S. has a very limited duration AND only a very few uses per day; the Skald is +1 all the time, 24/7.

Having played through Chateau, I can definitely say that a F/M would be MUCH better than any Bard. As you pointed out, having the attack ability of a thief is a HUGE DIS-advantage in close up fights. I created a F/M to compare to the Skald and the bard actually had more spells - at least initially. The ONLY advantage the bard has is the Lore ability. It is nice to be able to Identify any item on sight and not have to burn a spell on it before using it.

In my battle against Illyich, I did have to ReLoad several times - mainly because my strategy centered around using Dire Charm on Illyich and Kazamov (it never worked well on any of the others). So I had to reload until they failed their saves. I also had to rest once to regain my Dire Charm to use on Kazamov.

Now that I've reached the "real world" in the game, the disadvantages of the bard are becoming more and more apparant. I managed to kill of the Slaver guards in Copper Coronet without any problems (with help from the moose and nymphs) but the two things I need most are Potions of Healing and Speed. I admit that I "cheated" in the Coronet AND the Circus both. After defeating the guards in the Coronet, I went back to the main room and allowed Anomen to join my party - just so he could cast Healing spells on me and prevent me from using up my Healing Potions. I did the same thing in the circus. After clearing the second level (with the werewolves and shadows), I was out of spells and almost dead. I had also drank all of my healing potions. So I went back downstairs first to recruit Aerie for some healing spells. After regaining my health and my spells, I went straight up to the 3rd level to find Kalah. I cast Improved Invisibility and just ignored the werewolves pathetic attempts to hit me while I blasted Kalah with Magic Missiles and a Skull Trap.

The bottom line is that I am beginning to serious doubt I can solo all the way through BGII with my Skald. I just don't have enough experience with all the encounters and I'm in constant need of healing. The potion of speed would help his melee and missile attacks tremendously, but it is only temporary.

Oh well, it was just an experiment anyway. I'm currently trying to kill Mencar and his buddies in the 7 Vales Inn. I've only had time to try a couple of times and I've died both times. So it looks like I will eventually have to accept some help if I want to continue playing him through BG2.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Sudden urge to rant. Some general advice on Bardic tactics.

Stoneskin-less? Too low level to cast it yet? Then it would be prudent to employ more... roguish methods of dispatching your foes. The reason is simple enough, the Bard simply does not have the HP, AC and THAC0 to be an efficient melee combatant by default. The Bard depends heavily on his arcane know-how to become a formidable opponent. At least 90% of well-known Bardic tactics depend on a spell in one way or another.

So what does this all mean?

Simply put, it means that although the Bard is a jack of all trades, the player must be a master of all trades to fully utilise the Bard's potential.

Stated like that, the Bard can seem to be a daunting class to excel in, and rightfully so, for it is a very unique class to play with. We are all too familiar with almighty warriors and wizards, who kick butts for a hobby and kill armies with a sneeze. When it comes to bards though, we have Volo.

Steering back to the game though. Initially, you will be running. A lot. Use your Pickpocket ability to steal Oils of Speeds and all manner of potions. This is infinitely more important now that you are soloing. That Potion of Defence grants you a second-hand Full Plate Mail for 10 turns (10 minutes).

STEAL! Don't buy! If you are buying when you could be stealing, you are not exactly maximising your Bard's potential, and wasting valuable gold on stuff when you could be saving up for that Girdle of Hill Giant Strength. This applies to scrolls too. Remember, although your Bard cannot cast level 7-9 spells, he sure can gain XP from scribing them. If your disdain of cheese is minimal... you can fleece the two scroll merchants in Waukeen's Promenade and slaughter Mencar & Co. with an escort of Skeleton Warriors... which brings me to the next point...

SUMMON! Soloing does not mean being lonely. You have access to several of the arcanecasters' best summons. Web + Spider Spawn is a lovely and evergreen spell combination. Especially lethal when you have the Ring of Free Action. At level 15, you can start churning out Skeleton Warriors, possibly one of the most versatile summon in the entire game. At level 16, you can summon the Nishruu to harass enemy spellcasters. In addition, you can use items to summon. Kitthix, Greater Air Elemental, Berserker Warrior, Wyern, etc... ...

SPEED! Try to get the Boots of Speed as soon as possible. You should be able to do the necessary quest comfortably around level 12; especially if you pre-buff with potions and spells before stepping through the portal. If you have difficulties in this quest, I will be glad to elaborate more on tactics.

STEALTH! When in danger, use a spell/item to turn invisible and flee. To retreat may seem cowardly, but cowards live to fight another day. The flip side of this equation is Mislead, where you use invisibility to torment the enemies. I would talk more about the Mislead exploit... but far too many people associate the Bard with it and fail to connect the Bard with his other qualities. A real tragedy in my opinion.

SING! Even if you are a Blade, a song that confers benefits, is a song that confers benefits. There are several ways to sing and fight at the same, the most common tactic being to use a clone to sing for you. Songs also affect summons, so it never hurts to sing. The only quirk comes about when the Jester is involved, as his song is offensive(in more ways than one ). Hmmmm... an NPC Jester called William Hung. *Shudder*

SLASH! TTransformation aside, the Bard is usually not impressive when it comes to melee. This is compensated by his ability to bring the enemy down to his level as well. A Bard can cast disabling spells such as Spook, Web, Slow, Emotion:Hopelessness, Feeblemind, etc... which all have the effect of making the enemy vulnerable, even in a fisticuff fight.

SNIPE! Enemy's too tough for your bard to duke it out in melee? Use ranged attacks to whittle them into submission! With summons and/or sufficient speed, you can use arrows, bolts, darts, meteors, etc... to poke your enemy to death. REMEMBER, it does not matter how long it takes for you to kill the enemy, so long as you DO kill the enemy.

So there you go... a little insight on how I myself play Bards.

Should you happen to notice that all the paragraphs start with the letter, 'S', please take no heed of it. It is not an attempt by this poster to be a... *cough* spoony bard. Actually, I have no idea what 'spoony' means, but it sounds cute.

[ 07-16-2004, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: Sudden urge to rant. Some general advice on Bardic tactics. Stoneskin-less? Too low level to cast it yet? Then it would be prudent to employ more... roguish methods of dispatching your foes. The reason is simple enough, the Bard simply does not have the HP, AC and THAC0 to be an efficient melee combatant by default. The Bard depends heavily on his arcane know-how to become a formidable opponent. At least 90% of well-known Bardic tactics depend on a spell in one way or another.

I was "Stoneskin-less" until escaping from the Chateau - which was extremely frustrating. I was high enough to cast 4th level spells, but couldn't find any in the Chateau. That was the first purchase I made once I made it to the Promenade. I now carry Improved Invisibility and Stoneskin as my two 4th level spells.

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: So what does this all mean? Simply put, it means that although the Bard is a jack of all trades, the player must be a master of all trades to fully utilise the Bard's potential. Stated like that, the Bard can seem to be a daunting class to excel in, and rightfully so, for it is a very unique class to play with. We are all too familiar with almighty warriors and wizards, who kick butts for a hobby and kill armies with a sneeze. When it comes to bards though, we have Volo. Steering back to the game though. Initially, you will be running. A lot. Use your Pickpocket ability to steal Oils of Speeds and all manner of potions. This is infinitely more important now that you are soloing. That Potion of Defence grants you a second-hand Full Plate Mail for 10 turns (10 minutes). STEAL! Don't buy! If you are buying when you could be stealing, you are not exactly maximising your Bard's potential, and wasting valuable gold on stuff when you could be saving up for that Girdle of Hill Giant Strength. This applies to scrolls too. Remember, although your Bard cannot cast level 7-9 spells, he sure can gain XP from scribing them. If your disdain of cheese is minimal... you can fleece the two scroll merchants in Waukeen's Promenade and slaughter Mencar & Co. with an escort of Skeleton Warriors... which brings me to the next point...

I have tried stealing but haven't had much success. I only have a 40% chance and the Skald's PickPocket skills do not increase. I have been buying Potions of Thievery to improve my chances and I plan to do exactly what you're talking about when I have enough potions to give myself the edge. The only serious money I've spent so far is to pay for the magic license. Yeah, I know I could just fight the Cowled Wizards and eventually get to cast spells free of charge - but that doesn't fit with this character's personality. My evil Jester, on the other hand, isn't gonna pay one thin dime to those Cowled Hooligans. Of course, he is the type of person that would kill a Cowled Wizard (or anybody else for that matter) just for the sheer fun of it. The fact that he can kill Cowled Wizards AND save money at the same time is just icing on the cake.

As for my bard's fighting strategy, I have NO problem running away. I did that plenty of times in Chateau. In fact, I went back to finish killing off some of the spawned duergar I had left behind, then finally decided it just wasn't worth the trouble. I would have to rest after each battle and that would just spawn two more of them, so I didn't see that I would ever get ahead. Sure, I would have eventually killed them all, but it would have taken a long time and used up all of my Healing potions in the process - so I just left where they were and went the other way. I also tried to just run past the werewolves and shades on the 2nd Level of the Circus (cause I had already used my Improved Invisibility spell earlier). I knew if I could get to the 3rd level and just focus on Kalah, all the other monsters would disappear. I made it, but then I got swarmed by the werewolves on the third level also.

And I freely admit that the player is NOT a master of all trades regarding using spells, potions, scrolls and innate abilities to the best advantage. I've only completed the game once so far, so I'm still learning a lot of new tricks as I go along.

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: SUMMON! Soloing does not mean being lonely. You have access to several of the arcanecasters' best summons. Web + Spider Spawn is a lovely and evergreen spell combination. Especially lethal when you have the Ring of Free Action. At level 15, you can start churning out Skeleton Warriors, possibly one of the most versatile summon in the entire game. At level 16, you can summon the Nishruu to harass enemy spellcasters. In addition, you can use items to summon. Kitthix, Greater Air Elemental, Berserker Warrior, Wyern, etc... ...

I do summon the Moose and Nymphs from the Acorns for the big fights. I used them to help defeat all the Slaver Guards in the Copper Coronet and I have them in reserve in case I need them against Mencar. But I'm trying to defeat him and his crew without summoning them if I can. I also gave a LOT of thought to buying a "Monster Summoning II" scroll instead of Improved Invisibility, but decided the I.I. would be far more valuable to my bard right now.

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: SPEED! Try to get the Boots of Speed as soon as possible. You should be able to do the necessary quest comfortably around level 12; especially if you pre-buff with potions and spells before stepping through the portal. If you have difficulties in this quest, I will be glad to elaborate more on tactics.

I definitely need Boots of Speed. I'm trying to always have a couple of Potions of Speed on hand and I also use my "Draw Upon Holy Might" (innate ability) if I think there is even a CHANCE of being caught in melee. Boots of Speed would be sweeeeeet right now. I'm already 12th level and will be 13th level by the time I kill Mencar and Co. Exactly which quest will give me the Boots of Speed? (I can always look it up if you don't want to tell me). Once I start the quest, I will be happy for you to elaborate on the tactics I should use.

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: STEALTH! When in danger, use a spell/item to turn invisible and flee. To retreat may seem cowardly, but cowards live to fight another day. The flip side of this equation is Mislead, where you use invisibility to torment the enemies. I would talk more about the Mislead exploit... but far too many people associate the Bard with it and fail to connect the Bard with his other qualities. A real tragedy in my opinion.

Trust me, I'm a big believer in stealth. Like I said, the first 4th level spell I took was Improved Invisibility.

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: SING! Even if you are a Blade, a song that confers benefits, is a song that confers benefits. There are several ways to sing and fight at the same, the most common tactic being to use a clone to sing for you. Songs also affect summons, so it never hurts to sing. The only quirk comes about when the Jester is involved, as his song is offensive(in more ways than one ). Hmmmm... an NPC Jester called William Hung. *Shudder*

Ok, now that is a trick I haven't thought of yet. To be honost, I thought the Bard's song was pretty useless in a solo game since he can't do anything else while singing. I can see how it would be a good benefit in a party, but not so useful in a solo game. I also don't have a way to create a clone right now, but once I get Simulucrum, I'll give it a try.

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: SLASH! TTransformation aside, the Bard is usually not impressive when it comes to melee. This is compensated by his ability to bring the enemy down to his level as well. A Bard can cast disabling spells such as Spook, Web, Slow, Emotion:Hopelessness, Feeblemind, etc... which all have the effect of making the enemy vulnerable, even in a fisticuff fight.

I've already mentioned that Dire Charm was my bard's favorite spell in the Chateau and it continues to be used heavily. I did get a scroll with Emotion on it and wrote into my spellbook immediately. I got a Web scroll in the circus, but haven't found a scroll for Slow or Haste yet.

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: SNIPE! Enemy's too tough for your bard to duke it out in melee? Use ranged attacks to whittle them into submission! With summons and/or sufficient speed, you can use arrows, bolts, darts, meteors, etc... to poke your enemy to death. REMEMBER, it does not matter how long it takes for you to kill the enemy, so long as you DO kill the enemy.

I definitely prefer to Snipe instead of melee'- Tuigen bow is currently my best friend. I plan to add the Light Crossbow of Speed to expand my Sniping abilities. But sometimes melee is unavoidable. When you go to the 2nd level of the circus, the werewolves immediately swarm to you. After a couple of Reloads, I got around that by using my Wand of Monster Summoning (from the Chateau) and having monsters spawn right behind the werewolves. I then ran around so that the Summoned Monsters were between me and the werewolves. That worked great because the werewolves continued fighting the Summoned Baddies instead of following me. I then lured the other werewolves from the middle of the room to the Summoned Melee group and left them there too. Then I backed off and hit the group with a Stinking Cloud. This allowed me to use the Tuigen bow to pick off the monsters one or two at a time. And when some escaped the cloud, I could concentrate on them without worrying about their buddies.

With Mencar and his group, I'm attacking them with Stinking Cloud before they turn hostile. Again, this gives me the chance to focus on one or two of them while the others recover from the effects of the cloud. On my first try, I also lured Smaliev Orcslicer downstairs and then outside. Once I had some room to run, I just ran in circles by going up the stairs, running over to the next staircase, going down, and then back over to the first staircase again. This allowed me to stay out of Orcslicers reach and also let me get far enough ahead of him to turn and fire a few arrows his way before continuing to flee. It did take a little while to kill him, but I took almost NO damage from the encounter (except for a couple of times when I tried to fire one more arrow instead of running on ahead a bit and he got close enough to slice me). The odd thing was that - when I went back inside the Seven Vales Inn, another Orcslicer was still there at the foot of the stairs leading to their room. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] . I tried to just run around inside the inn and snipe at him, but he was able to hit me more often in such confined quarters and eventually killed me.

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: So there you go... a little insight on how I myself play Bards.

I do appreciate the advice Dundee This is my first time playing a Bard and I do have a tendency to advance when I should retreat (or at least flank and cast). Thanks for all the tips and advice.

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: Should you happen to notice that all the paragraphs start with the letter, 'S', please take no heed of it. It is not an attempt by this poster to be a... *cough* spoony bard. Actually, I have no idea what 'spoony' means, but it sounds cute.

Actually, I hadn't even noticed it till you mentioned it.

[ 07-16-2004, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

[Black Baron]

What is the little strange line, Dundee?

[Assassin]

A little message in very small font. Copy and paste to read it.

I would personally say to use the same tactics that you would if you were soloing an Thief... say, an Assassin. They have similar fighting qualities, only that an Assassin can Backstab/Poison, while the Jester can cast spells.

Getting the latest patch/reloading will get rid of the respawning enemies. However, you could also simply CTRL-Y the clone; I would say that you're justified in that.

For Mencar: I would say get Slow, Haste, Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and the essential stuff. Failing that, throw in a Fireball. But you have to do some damage to them. Use the Acorns to Dire Charm. The Moose can deal out damage decently well, though in my experience, it's best use is to try and take down the Thief as soon as possible. That Ring of Invisibility is very useful in hit and run situations. If you can manage to Dire Charm the Mages, use the MMM to pelt at Mencar, along with volleys of Magic Missiles. The fighters are easy to take on if they're Slowed and you have the Tuigan Bow.