ATTN: Jake

[Ladyzekke]

Thanks Ziroc, I feel we are better off without a guy who would be that way, especially on such a day as yesterday. I think he knew exactly what he was doing, timing and all, no matter who he is or how old he is. I mean, there could be some people on our forum whom have lost loved ones. Dead! And for possibly one of these people to go on our forum for perhaps comfort, to see such as what Jake posted, is just unforgiveable. Sorry, but that is my opinion, I know some of you disagree with me, and that is OK too, I respect that. But, to me, the way I feel about it? I hope the little bastaid ain't laughin now that he sees that his comments got him banned. "Eat it like we had to swallow your sick comments Jake". Sorry. Done now.

------------------

[250]

Originally posted by ladyzekke: Thanks Ziroc, I feel we are better off without a guy who would be that way, especially on such a day as yesterday. I think he knew exactly what he was doing, timing and all, no matter who he is or how old he is. I mean, there could be some people on our forum whom have lost loved ones. Dead! And for possibly one of these people to go on our forum for perhaps comfort, to see such as what Jake posted, is just unforgiveable. Sorry, but that is my opinion, I know some of you disagree with me, and that is OK too, I respect that. But, to me, the way I feel about it? I hope the little bastaid ain't laughin now that he sees that his comments got him banned. "Eat it like we had to swallow your sick comments Jake". Sorry. Done now.

YEAH, I completely agree with you!

Ladyzekke, do you think the way I am is like Minsc? I got that idea when I was taking shower, I mean, all TOO passionate to smite evil (and idiots)

[MILAMBER]

Over the top? Started so well? I guess I'm sorry if I disappointed you.

Is there really a double standard? I honestly don't think so, but that's just me. I have my own personal standards about what I think is right and wrong, and if they conflict with anybody elses, I'm sorry. I won't try to push my standards on you. I'll get along fine with anybody- even if we disagree, as long as they respect my beliefs and don't push theirs on me. The only reason I wanted Jake banned was because he was disrespecting everyone's beliefs. Not because I disagreed with him or because I don't like him. Because he was purposely trying to excite hostility from a already tense group of people by attacking them in a very sensative area. I haven't seen that anywhere else on this board. That's why I'm confused about how the double standard was brought up. The only double standard I can see would be towards people who appreciate that type of malicious behavior. I'm really trying not to be closed minded here, but I guess I'm missing it.

Please correct me if I am missing the point here.

------------------
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

[250]

dude, if I see this jake, I REALLY WILL ... hmm... nevermind

he is such a crude little... ok, enough for name callings

enough said about Jake

what pisses me off is that he intentionally cause harm to those who suffer from the attack

he has no compassion
he has no love
he has no consideration
he has no brain

peace
Deux Cent Cequante

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: Dio, I think the issue here is timing. There is a time for his criticisms, but not now.

Yorick, a time of national crisis is the very time to most protect the right of free speech and ideas. That is the very time it is most important to allow the voicing of any and all viewpoints. That is the time when a country shows whether it really means what it says regarding freedom, or whether it just pays the idea lip service and reserves it for fair weather days when not much is at stake.

Now, that said, I wish to apologize to all for my previous outburst and attempt to explain why I reacted the way I did above.

I am a student of history. It is one of my interests in this world. As such, I am painfully aware that much of the history of humanity on this planet is a long tale of bloody suffering inflicted on man by man. I strongly feel, as Cloudy expressed in her heart felt post in another thread, that human suffering anywhere on the planet is bad. This applies every bit as much, in equal degree, to the suffering of Palestinians, for example, as Americans, or the suffering of the hundreds of thousands of Iraquis at the hands of our mass bombings in the Gulf war.

America has largey escaped such suffering, compared to other parts of the world. In both World Wars we fought from a distance, entering the wars late and suffering relatively few casualties and virtually no damage to our homeland. America has generally fought its wars away from its own shores. Americans have generally been free to live in blissful ignorance about the real meaning of human suffering on a wide scale, so much so that they can make light of and have no real appreciation for the plight of some of the other peoples in world.

After this terrible diaster in New York, I hope that at least this much good would come out of it -- that Americans would have a better appreciation of what violence and suffering really means on a large scale, that being on the receiving end of it for a change should open our eyes more to the consequences of such inexcusable actions, and give us pause to consider our own actions and the suffering we can and do inflict on others.

Instead, what I am hearing and seeing mostly (not just here, but on TV, radio, etc) are the same old cries of "nuke the bastards", just the same old desire to further perpetuate the cycle of destruction with no end in sight.

It is enough to make me weep.

[MILAMBER]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: This forum, like lots of other forums on the internet, is FULL of callous, insensitive remarks regarding horrible incidents, both recent and in the past, that have happened to other peoples, sometimes at the hands of the United States. I haven't seen a single one of you calling for the banning of the people making those remarks, much less talking about punching them out or killing them in real life. And you are even blind to the friggin double standard! MY GOD IT IS MAKING ME SICK!!!!!!!!!!

Just one more thing... If I saw someone making callous remarks about any tragadies committed by the U.S or anyone else I would want them banned. The U.S certainly isn't right all the time and we have just as checkered a past as everyone else does. Human life is human life and it is to be respected in all circumstances. Anybody who doesn't respect human life, I strongly disagree with. That was the heart of the problem yesterday. He made comments about how this recent tagedy was "exciting" and basically saying that it was no big deal and he didn't care about it.

Am I interpreting your point correctly? Is that what you are saying? Because if so, then we are in agreement.


EDIT

I just saw your post that you put up when I was typing the above. I completely misunderstood you. I'm sorry. I really do agree with you, and I honestly hope that this tragedy will help us put things in perspective.

The reason I was kind of upset was because I thought you were trying to defend Jake. Once again, you have my apologies.


------------------
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

[This message has been edited by MILAMBER (edited 09-12-2001).]

[250]

Originally posted by MILAMBER: Just one more thing... If I saw someone making callous remarks about any tragadies committed by the U.S or anyone else I would want them banned. The U.S certainly isn't right all the time and we have just as checkered a past as everyone else does. Human life is human life and it is to be respected in all circumstances. Anybody who doesn't respect human life, I strongly disagree with. That was the heart of the problem yesterday. He made comments about how this recent tagedy was "exciting" and basically saying that it was no big deal and he didn't care about it. Am I interpreting your point correctly? Is that what you are saying? Because if so, then we are in agreement.

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by MILAMBER: Over the top? Started so well? I guess I'm sorry if I disappointed you. Is there really a double standard? I honestly don't think so, but that's just me. I have my own personal standards about what I think is right and wrong, and if they conflict with anybody elses, I'm sorry. I won't try to push my standards on you. I'll get along fine with anybody- even if we disagree, as long as they respect my beliefs and don't push theirs on me. The only reason I wanted Jake banned was because he was disrespecting everyone's beliefs. Not because I disagreed with him or because I don't like him. Because he was purposely trying to excite hostility from a already tense group of people by attacking them in a very sensative area. I haven't seen that anywhere else on this board. That's why I'm confused about how the double standard was brought up. The only double standard I can see would be towards people who appreciate that type of malicious behavior. I'm really trying not to be closed minded here, but I guess I'm missing it. Please correct me if I am missing the point here.

I think you are missing the point, actually, Milamber. Yeah, I agree about the Jake guy being a troll. But there have been people come onto this forum who have said MUCH worse things, been warned (therefore getting the opportunity to change attitude) and subsequently either were banned or they reformed.
I have not read the stuff Jake posted, apart from what was posted of his comments here, but apparantly he had no warning from a mod that he would be banned if he did not change his tune - he was just banned.
I, personally, understand that he was banned because his comments were SO callous at THIS TIME. But it IS having a double standard. (No, his comments were not acceptable, at any time!)
The other way this forum as a whole tends to have a double standard is that there has been little concern expressed about other atrocities in the world, during the time I have been here, and a great deal about this atrocity in America. OK, it's understandable, but, again, it IS a double standard.

Don't think this is America-bashing, because it is not. I simply think that because America is so big it is probably difficult for people to look outside its borders.
I live on a relatively small island - the UK - and we are closer to things that go on in the world as a consequence. But even we tend not to pay much attention to what does not concern us closely, so I am not blaming Americans, just stating what I believe are facts.
OK?

------------------




[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-12-2001).]

[250]

no mercy, it is at the time of need, that one shows his true self
so if he is like that, then I'd rather have him ki... banned

I tell you a story, OK?
in 1970, a big earth quake killed hundreds of thousands of people's lives in China at a big city called Tang-Shan. A martial law was declared there, I do not remember exactly what it was, but one of them were:

"if one is found to be looting any dead or injured people. he MUST be executed where he is, IMMEDIATELY."

see what I mean? show no remorse to those kind people

[Cloudbringer]

I think I agree with those who think this thread has done it's job.. perhaps we should stop posting and let it freefall? All I see are more little digs at each other and we are all too wound up these days.

Cloudy

------------------


Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."