The American Constitution

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Clearly, Yorick is frustrated regarding his inability to understand a viewpoint other than his own (we've seen that before ). But, there wasn't anything rude about the posts.

I'm not frustrated, and I believe I do understand the viewpoint. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I just don't agree with it.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Careful, y'all, MagicK's hyperventalating again. Sorry to pick on you MagicK, but I didn't find Yorick to be rude. Clearly, Yorick is frustrated regarding his inability to understand a viewpoint other than his own (we've seen that before ). But, there wasn't anything rude about the posts.

Maybe Lawyers have different standards of courtesy, but where I live, you do NOT go into someones house and tell him how to run it. He is a guest in our country and neither you or any of his friends have the right to relieve him of the responsibility to act courteously while he is a guest here. My breathing rate is just fine, I can be indignant without hyperventilating. You may enjoy guests who come and insult you in your home. I do not.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Careful, y'all, MagicK's hyperventalating again. Sorry to pick on you MagicK, but I didn't find Yorick to be rude. Clearly, Yorick is frustrated regarding his inability to understand a viewpoint other than his own (we've seen that before ). But, there wasn't anything rude about the posts.

Maybe Lawyers have different standards of courtesy, but where I live, you do NOT go into someones house and tell him how to run it. He is a guest in our country and neither you or any of his friends have the right to relieve him of the responsibility to act courteously while he is a guest here. My breathing rate is just fine, I can be indignant without hyperventilating. You may enjoy guests who come and insult you in your home. I do not. [/QUOTE]Sorry, MagicK, but *you* don't make the house rules for *our* home. And you certainly don't get to tell *me* who I can and cannot take up for, regardless of the implicit insult in your statement that Yorick can't fend for himself or that I can't have a viewpoint without someone else's assistance.

Forget your first amendment? The first most important limitation on the government is that it cannot stop us from having debate and discourse - in fact those things are embraced as a positive way for us to resolve differences and determine how society functions. Openness and discourse, therefore, I argue, are the house rule, not "keep your mouth shut if you disagree."

To assert rules other than those obvious in the Constitution and laws themselves makes the whole affair a bit like a game of Calvinball, no?

Those who get rankled by the questions must not have good answers. These inflamatory remarks make your position appear worse than it is, which is unfortunate because you've actually had a good idea or two on the subject, as posted herein.

The amount of disagreement among Americans on the issue should clue you in on the fact that gun laws *should* be an open debate in this country.

As for the rules of courtesy I follow, they are on the rules and regulations page, which I suggest you visit upon occassion. Among them is the rule to respect the viewpoints of others, which I thought you were well aware of.

[ 10-22-2002, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Oh go blow it out your ear. I live right here in the middle of all this and Im not afraid. Whats more I think you are one seriously rude guest and would be just as happy if you took your sorry rude butt somewhere else and protested the way they live. EDIT: Sorry everyone but enough is enough. There comes a time when a guest should be told to stuff it.

And I suppose your Polish ancestors should have been told the same thing? Or the original British Immigrants? This country is founded on immigration and the ideas which they brought with them. Your request is hypocrisy.

Although I'm sure the Amerindians would agree with you about rude 'guests'.

We could have sent them down to live in your penal colony, but MY ancesters didn't get here till the 1890's so I hardly think they had much to say about what happened here while they were still over there. Nice try though, next you will be telling me I should pay restitution for slavery.

Regardless, there are people contributing to this thread who are internationals and haven't stepped foot here. Are they to 'stuff it' as well?

I do not have any problem with people in europe or in Australia nagging us about how we live. I DO however have a great deal of angst over a rude guest who comes here and knocks us while enjoying our hospitality. go back to asutralia and bitch from there if you feel the need so strongly. I would not go to london and tell them that they should change their lives, nor should you come here and criticize your host.

American policy affects the world MagiK, it's only fair that the world in return affects American policy.[/QUOTE]American having a right to bear arms has nothing to do with how other nations decide to do things. If you really hate firearms go somewhere where they arent, or become a citizen and vote, but as a mere guest you do NOT have the right to criticize your host. As I have said before, you have the right to leave but not the right to tell the owner of his home how to run it.

My Ancestors were QUITE happy to live in this nation with the rules that it had...as a matter of fact they WANTED to live under our consitution and All embraced ownership of firearms as one of their rights.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:

Sorry, MagicK, but *you* don't make the house rules for *our* home. And you certainly don't get to tell *me* who I can and cannot take up for, regardless of the implicit insult in your statement that Yorick can't fend for himself or that I can't have a viewpoint without someone else's assistance.
[/QUOTE]

I didn't make the rule, It is common courtesy and YOU can't change that, nor can I. YOU cannot give him carte blanche to be rude. I however CAN remind him that he is a GUEST and that he is being RUDE! I did not make up good manners. (and if you want to be a smart ass you could say Im not useing good manners, but I have read several posts on here that more than justify reminding a guest that he is being rude.)

As for the 1st ammendment, OUR constitution does not apply to him. If he were to decide to become a citizen then that would change. The first ammendment also does not give you unlimited freedom of speach, as someone who uses the language for a living Im sure you are quite aware of that so get off my back please.

[ 10-22-2002, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Cloudbringer]

OK, speaking of common courtesy, I'm coming in as an Escape Forums Moderator here and asking that we turn the heat down a notch and remember a little thing called 'being civil' to one another despite our differences of opinion.

MagiK, everyone here can voice their opinion and you are welcome to disagree, but please remember they have as much right to an opinion as anyone else, despite their origins or living arrangements.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Careful, y'all, MagicK's hyperventalating again. Sorry to pick on you MagicK, but I didn't find Yorick to be rude. Clearly, Yorick is frustrated regarding his inability to understand a viewpoint other than his own (we've seen that before ). But, there wasn't anything rude about the posts.

Maybe Lawyers have different standards of courtesy, but where I live, you do NOT go into someones house and tell him how to run it. He is a guest in our country and neither you or any of his friends have the right to relieve him of the responsibility to act courteously while he is a guest here. My breathing rate is just fine, I can be indignant without hyperventilating. You may enjoy guests who come and insult you in your home. I do not. [/QUOTE]Actually, no I'm not a 'guest.' I'm not a tourist. I paid my dues to be allowed to contribute to the economy. In due course I can become a citizen.

Your views reek of racism MagiK. I suggest you desist from the line right now.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: next you will be telling me I should pay restitution for slavery. I DO however have a great deal of angst over a rude guest who comes here and knocks us while enjoying our hospitality. go back to asutralia and bitch from there if you feel the need so strongly. I would not go to london and tell them that they should change their lives, nor should you come here and criticize your host. If you really hate firearms go somewhere where they arent, or become a citizen and vote, but as a mere guest you do NOT have the right to criticize your host. As I have said before, you have the right to leave but not the right to tell the owner of his home how to run it.

This has nothing to do with hating guns. I enjoy shooting a gun. Given the opportunity I would gladly do so again.

This has to do with care for human life. Innocent children. Suicidals at the end of their rope.

If I had to give up the pleasure of shooting a gun forever, to save one human life, then I would gladly do so.

That's what this is about.

For that, I can be anywhere in the world critiquing American policy, just as I can be anywhere in the world critiquing Chinese policy on Tibet.

And yes, I advocate restitution for slavery where proven lines of victim/profitting exploiter exist. But that's another story. [img]smile.gif[/img]

In any case, you're hardly my 'host'. I'm contributing to the economy like you are.

The difference is that I don't vote.

Oh hang on, that would put me in the same boat as most Americans wouldn't it

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Yorick: But you will gain much more freedoms as a result. The freedom to send your son to school without worrying that a classmate will blow his brains out. The freedom to walk into a bank without getting held up at gunpoint. The freedom to flash your lights at a driver who's forgotten to turn his lights on without worrying it's a gang initiation to kill the first person that does it. The freedom to get gas at a gas station without worrying, if you live in D.C.

I already have all that(furrows brow in puzzlement). I'm much more afraid of dying of a heart attack because I'm 100 lbs over weight. I'm much more afraid of getting lung cancer, because of past choices and the fact that I can't seem to totally get away from second hand smoke. I'm much more afraid of dying in a car wreak, because of a drunk driver.

Except for suicides, a majority people that die of gun shot wounds are doing something they shouldn't be doing any way, such as selling drugs or some such. I'm sorry it happens, but taking away an honest citizen's firearms is only hurting that honest citizen. The bad guys will just find another way to kill each other.

[norompanlasolas]

yorick, you used to be an inmate??? or there is something i dont know, given that you used to live in a penal colony?

anyways, i wasnt going to post in this topic, cause my viewpoint is kind of in the middle. i dont like the govt banning things but im also not very fond of guns. but from where i come from (argentina) they are perfectly legal to carry and in the country, where i have relatives, everybody has them. so i dont know, i think its ok to have them as long as they are not ridiculously high powered (like having a submachine gun).

what i do have a strong opinion is against racism. the fact that someone cant have an opinion because is not a national of a country is so full of shit, i cant even begin to dig into it. racism is a scourge, it always appears when least expected.