Grand Theft Auto inspires Thai murder

[Luvian]

Originally Posted by Cerek The problem with your examples is that none of them are specifically marketed towards teens and young adults. Video games are. That is why designers of the games need to be held to a better standard. I agree completely parents bear the brunt of the responsibility. I do monitor the games my boys play, whether on a console or on the computer. However, that does not alleviate the responsibility borne by the manufacturers that produce the game.

Euh, no. Mature video games are not targeted toward teens. You're living in the past. Gamers have aged and so have the games made for them. Video games aren't different than movies; some are for adults, some are for kids. Claiming all movies are for kids would be absolutely ridiculous, and so would claiming all games are for kids is. It's simply an entertainment source, a multimedia format, a way to transfer information. It isn't any different than a book or a movie. It's not "a toy" any more than movies and books are toys. There isn't any default age for video games just as there is no default age for books or movies.

Games are clearly labelled with what ages they are appropriate for. TV ads clearly state what age the game they advertise are made for. Many shops refuse to carry Mature games, and over here all of them that do refuse to sell them to minors. I think that alleviate their responsibility just fine. They're clearly stating these products aren't for kids. What else could they do?

But you know what? You're all rambling for nothing. It's all only hot air, because times and times again laws attempting to restrict video games sales or production have been shot down in courts as unconstitutional. In fact in the last three years such laws were shut down in Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan and California. Even the "Hot Coffee" class action lawsuit wasn't successful.

Your judges and constitutional experts have spoken. Video Games are just a age-neutral method of expression. It's not "a kid's toy".

Parenting is hard. Shifting the blame is easy.

[Yorick]

Believe me Cerek, I was a game addict in large part because I was addicted to the stimulus I was receiving from the art.

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by Luvian Euh, no. Mature video games are not targeted toward teens. You're living in the past. Gamers have aged and so have the games made for them. .

That may well be the case bro, but kids play "adult" games and vice versa.
I had a large number of WoW groups ruined because some 11 year old was playing a character.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Luvian But you know what? You're all rambling for nothing. It's all only hot air, because times and times again laws attempting to restrict video games sales or production have been shot down in courts as unconstitutional. In fact in the last three years such laws were shut down in Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan and California. Even the "Hot Coffee" class action lawsuit wasn't successful. Your judges and constitutional experts have spoken. Video Games are just a age-neutral method of expression. It's not "a kid's toy". Parenting is hard. Shifting the blame is easy.

Rambling for nothing? A page or so back you were screaming about how I wanted to ban games and lighters. Even though I never mentioned banning anything. And then you say that people are blowing hot air?

With all due respect, just because you're upset that some people want these games restricted and their content at least monitored (and believe that the current implementation of these actions isn't working), does not equal rambling about nothing. Your other post was more about you venting and that we should ban everything for no afformentioned reason other than you not liking where the thread was going.

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by Luvian But you know what? You're all rambling for nothing. It's all only hot air, because times and times again laws attempting to restrict video games sales or production have been shot down in courts as unconstitutional.

Who's constitution? I am Australian and my government has successfully banned certain games from sale. There was a thread posted recently about Fallout 3 for example.

Secondly, this thread is about a case in THAILAND.

Thirdly I posted the results of French, German and your own Canadian laws re. free speech vs hate crimes.

Lose the Americacentricity man. It's not helpful. This is a world issue. America's constitution is irrelevent.

Your judges and constitutional experts have spoken. Video Games are just a age-neutral method of expression. It's not "a kid's toy". .

Expression isn't neutral but contains the morality of the speaker, and as such, the speaker is often convicted because of that expression. (See my post on hate crimes convictions)

[Bungleau]

Originally Posted by Yorick Lose the Americacentricity man.

I find this humorous because Luvian is (AFAIK) Quebecois, which is a different version of Canadian that by definition, is smarter, better looking, and more handsomely compensated than the average Canadian.

Or at least that's what my Quebecois relatives tell me

All said, we're back to a worldwide definition... of either art, or what's good, or what should be banned, or what beliefs people should have. The world isn't there yet, however, as evidenced by the ongoing conflicts in so many places throughout the world.

[Luvian]

Originally Posted by Yorick Who's constitution? I am Australian and my government has successfully banned certain games from sale. There was a thread posted recently about Fallout 3 for example.

I wasn't addressing you, although I heard there was a move being made in Australia to have a 18+ category added.

Let's be honest here. If there's a move to be made to affect the game industry it has to come from the US. Australia is only a relatively small secondary market. It never stopped Mature games from being published and it never will no matter what laws get made down there.

I'm not trying to be rude, it's just the truth. Just look at how long it can take games to get down there compared to the rest of the world. The American market is American companies' main market. They're much more concerned about what they can do at home than they are about what will pass in some foreign country.

And even as far as foreign countries goes, not many countries are opposed to Mature content. The Japanese obviously have nothing against mature video games, and I haven't seen any mature games banned in western Europe. Oftentimes it the opposite, European games getting censored for the US, as was The Witcher.

No, if any change is to come to the game industry as far as Mature content goes and that change is to have any effect, it has to come from where most of these games are made and sold. The USA.

And yes, I'm Quebecois. Just like gaming laws in Australia won't have any effect on the American Game industry, so to do laws from Quebec means nothing to them. It's a good thing then that we have simply decided to strictly enforce the age restriction and keep inappropriate games away from minors.

[Jaradu]

Cerek, I think there is an important difference between reward and promotion. GTA rewards stealing cars but it doesn't promote stealing cars, in the same way that Asteroids rewards flying a ship into space and shooting rocks, but doesn't promote flying a ship into space and shooting rocks.

I don't know if you've ever played a GTA game, but Rockstar are very good at satire. They very often subtly ridicule/undermine the criminal culture of the protagonists they are portraying. Sure, the humour/irony may be lost on some people, but my previous point still stands.

[Firestormalpha]

I'm afraid I don't see the difference between rewarding something and promoting it. You've heard of positive reinforcement, haven't you? In order to "promote" a given behavior, you can "reward" the one who successfully attempts the behavior. Are the words different? yes, but one leads to the other. By rewarding the behavior in-game, they potentially promote the behavior in RL.

As discussed previously, this can be avoided by "successfully" restricting who has access to these kinds of games. A task that I think we've already stated is much easier said than done, and rely's heavily on the education and participation of parents/adult guardians.

[Luvian]

Originally Posted by Firestormalpha As discussed previously, this can be avoided by "successfully" restricting who has access to these kinds of games. A task that I think we've already stated is much easier said than done, and rely's heavily on the education and participation of parents/adult guardians.

I have a question. In the states could a kid buy a mature game by himself from a shop?