National Sovreignty and the UN

Well thanks for the posts everyone, the poll has pretty much gone the way I suspected it would, but it is nice to see one's thoughts born out in public opinion [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Timber, you may look at it with a lawyer's point of view, but you completely overlook all that the concept of "nation" represents. I'll say it again, a nation is a group of people sharing a unity of language, history and culture, a unity whose roots plunge deep in a centuries-old common experience of living together.

Moiraine, I get your meaning, but I do want to point out that under this definition the USA is not a nation. As for the "next village = foreign" thing, well sure that's changed in 200 years. But our horizons have expanded exponentially in every other way during that time too.

Wellard: I was merely musing at a fair UN voting structure - one that would be acceptable if the UN ever becomes more "mandatory" like a "true" form of government. It's not "change the voting structure because we're losing" it's "think of how to make it fair." And, yes you're right, China and India would certainly become a HUGE voting block (in the portion of the body that voted that way), with all of the other G77 countries behind them.

As for the US "losing," you might want to check again. Go back and watch Kofi Anan speak and then Bush's following speech turn him on his head - from watchdog of the downtrodden to lazy bureaon in a lazy system that threatens for 12 years and never *does* anything, to the detriment of us all and in violation of its own rules and mandates.

The US has the absolute best lawyers on the planet. Since Reagan, every president has been able to (if he wanted) conceive what he wants and then send an army of lawyers and diplomats to the UN to make it so. The US wants, the US gets. It may take longer to sway the UN, but it will sway. I'm open to taking all bets on this one if you doubt me.

[ 03-03-2003, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by MagiK: Well thanks for the posts everyone, the poll has pretty much gone the way I suspected it would, but it is nice to see one's thoughts born out in public opinion [img]smile.gif[/img]

You go fishing, you catch fish. Or at least you do if you have such a consummate skill for it and practice so much.

No offence meant Ray, but what exatcly did you have in mind as a response to this? Especially seeing as over the last week or so all you seem to have posted are quite provocative threads, practically begging Europeans to flame you.

[Timber Loftis]

Until MagiK's personal counsel shows up, I'll take up for him.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to flesh out an issue you're interested in. He apparently wants to pick other folks' brains on EU issues. Nothing wrong with that, is there? I hope not, because every 2-3 weeks I get the itch to harp on global warming or some other topic.

[Barry the Sprout]

Nothing wrong with it Timber, but it seems MagiK is only capable of posting thinly veiled attempts to incite flames from European members at present. I understand theres a lot of bad feeling about in the US against Europe, but this is getting beyond a joke.

Frankly I don't mind the topics so much as the almost smug manner in which MagiK came back the thread to announce to us plebs that we had done exactly as he had expected, in his infinite wisdom. As far as I'm concerned thats practically admitting that he had no intention of this thread being used for discussion and he wanted it to be flamed. I have always liked MagiK, and despite our obvious political differences I think we get on fairly well - but I'm not sure what's up with him at present.

[WOLFGIR]

Well, hmm that is a different and more direct(undirect arpoach father

Sorry couldn´t help myslf. But this time I can´t say that I feel to angry with the EU Europe banter since I´m in the posotionm to probably dislike the EU more then MagiK

And if we don´t allow topics like this, we will have reached how far?
Hopefully with this topic Magik has reached goal and made the rest of us think and turn another cog around the issue.

Sometimes these things are pretty booring US vs EU things pretty often are since they are the flavour of the moment, and espacially when the US and the major parts of EU disagrees it is a PR phenomenon of unequaled properties happening, and dealing with the big lying and smooth machinery myself I can´t help to muse over mine and everybody elses opinions here.

We are after all too much the pawns of PR.

OK., bold and drunkness apart, I will say a thing that I heard from a WW2 veteran regarding Magik and my own disaproval (real or not, I leave to you that find it essantially. personally I won´t hold it impossible I will agree to his next post! )

"Me and MagikK might still both enjoy hunting and during different possibilities we might have been the best of friends."

This is a rewrite from an american soldier during the WW2 about the germans they fought. Let your mind boggle

[WOLFGIR]

OKI, this is a post to claerify instead of edit.. I+m not disregarding MagiK by spelling his name wrong, it is jist that it is my bloody birthday and none has noticed it and I´m pissed beyond repair and way off in a noice little field dancing with fairy tales almost so it is not due to disrespect, it is due to not bloody well seeing the keyboard but secondguesssing every keystroke oki?

Have a problem?

Bah

HooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo oooooooooowl

[Rikard_OHF]

on a side note
arent you pissed beyond repair like every day wolfie?

[WOLFGIR]

Originally posted by Rikard_OHF: on a side note arent you pissed beyond repair like every day wolfie?

Yeah well... you know I alway blame you my friend!

hehe I see you got the devil you deserve

[Rikard_OHF]

Originally posted by WOLFGIR: Quote: Originally posted by Rikard_OHF: on a side note arent you pissed beyond repair like every day wolfie?

Yeah well... you know I alway blame you my friend!

hehe I see you got the devil you deserve [/QUOTE]Thats not a devil
thats a
a...
a...

ZIROC GET THAT DEVIL OUT OF MY AVATAR

bah...

btw I've been looking at ouap map again but thats kinda off-topic