Abortion: Poll and Discussion

[lethoso]

1. pro choice
2. firstly because i don't feel its my place to dictate what others choose beleive, secondly because i don't want to be on the same side as the abortion clinic bombers and other extreme christian groups.

3.i'm not religious...

4. not applicable really, but i don't think my opinion would change even if abortion was used for stem cell harvesting...

5. i don't beleive in the death penalty, partially because they get it wrong occasionally, and partially because i don't think it serves any useful purpose, only creates more trauma. Plus the losers who stand around outside executions cheering it on... they just piss me off the sickos... (if you don't really know what i'm talking about, ages back i watched an episode of the awful truth, in which michael moore turned up outside an execution with a score board and cheerleaders and hung out with all the pro execution nutters... it was damn scary)

i don't really see death penalty being relative to abortion... entirely different set of ethical questions.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by lethoso: i don't really see death penalty being relative to abortion... entirely different set of ethical questions.

I see abortion, execution, suicide, murder and euthenasia as all related. Humans taking human life.

All decrease the inherant value of human life to a society. All are action choices that have alternatives.

[Night Stalker]

Well, I see life as more of an interconnected cyclical thing. In order for some life to go on, some life must end. It does not devalue the ending life, just the natural way of things. Life overall and even society depends on some life ending. Sometimes, life continuing is more tragic than it ending (I know - very hard concept).

To answer the question - pro-choise, for I have no wish to impose my will on others (selling others to my point of view is different [img]smile.gif[/img] ). Yes I believe in the Death Penalty; just like you remove cancerous cells, so must some be removed from society. Is it a very controversial and tough decision? Yes. Do I have a bullet proof answer? No.

[Yorick]

1. How you voted

Pro-life.

2. Why

It's the mothers body, but once a new life starts, it's a new person, not just an inconvenience to a mothers plans. The mother doesn't have to keep the child. Being adopted is better than being killed.

I was of the opinion that perhaps if a girl is raped, abortion should be allowed, but now - after songwriting with a woman who was raped at age 11 and had a daughter as a result - I've changed my mind. Her daughter, (12 years younger than her) is such a beautiful girl and has such a great relationship with her sister-like mother it almost made me cry. The beautiful spirit of the mother was awe-inspiring. She turned an act of hate and violence into love and new life.

It also proves that though we, as humans can be norn onto terrible legacies, with love and forgiveness, it doesn't have to matter.

I only wish more girls were aware of he alternatives.

I know so many women who've aborted. Most are wracked with guilt over it now, wishing that they had heard just one voice speak counsel against the abortion. No such voices were forthcoming. Another child died, another woman emotionally damaged.

3. Whether that conflicts with your religion's stance on the issue

No.

4. Whether your views change with extenuating circumstances (e.g. you do not support abortion but would support it for rape and incest victims, especially when they are young, or in the cases where the mother's life is in danger).

They used to, but not any more. See above.

5. (just for s*ts and giggles) Whether or not you support the death penalty and how, if at all, you see that relative to your abortion stance.

See above post of mine.

[ 01-28-2003, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Chewbacca]

1. How you voted (of course)

Choice.

2. Why

Having choice is better than the alternative.

3. Whether that conflicts with your religion's stance on the issue.

No. First off, my "religion", which some call shamanism, defines existence as an individual as that of a soul. Being a Soul permeates beyond birth as well as beyond death.

As an individual Soul, I chose to be born. As my mother is also an individual soul she chose the bear me and take responsibility for my physical development on Earth as a child. Had she chosen to "Abort" me for what ever reason, is it her right as a free-willed individual. As I am a soul, no harm was done to me while I am before physical form and development as an individual. Life and existance in my religion continue non-physically before birth and after death.


4. Whether your views change with extenuating circumstances (e.g. you do not support abortion but would support it for rape and incest victims, especially when they are young, or in the cases where the mother's life is in danger).

My views is indiffernet to extenuating circumstances. A person will choose to do what they do for whatever reasons. It still boils down to choice.

5. (just for s*ts and giggles) Whether or not you support the death penalty and how, if at all, you see that relative to your abortion stance

No. The death penalty does not prevent murders or reduce violence in society. One innocent person executed is too many.
My view on this topic has nothing to do with my view on abortion.

edited for clarity [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-28-2003, 01:34 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Leonis: The other issue I worry about, is that I believe fathers should have a voice when it comes to abortion, but again this is circumstantial - ie: a rapist should not, a one night stand probably not, but a long term partner should.

Yes, the forgotten victims of abortion.

You know these stories Del, but for the benefit of others...

I know one man whose wife told him she was pregnant. She then smashed her stomach in front of him, in an attempt to destroy their child. Much later she said she lied. Whether she lied before the destruction or lied after, he never knew. They never had a child.

I knew another guy whose wife left him and aborted their child in the process. With his knowledge but without his consent and against his wishes.

He's now remarried to another woman. He has a stepchild and his wife is expecting his own birth-child very soon.

[RevRuby]

Originally posted by MagiK: If the pro-choice people would just admit that they are not pro-choice but really pro-abortion and make a truely pro-choice group who also counsel mothers about adoption and other alternatives besides abortion I would feel more comfortable and not consider them liars and deceivers. Yeah not all pro-choice people are anti-adoption, but most of them wont counsel their patients about it so, they all get lumped together. There...those are my last words, tear me apart if you want but Im saying nothing more on the subject.

i agree. very good last words. i have been sitting here wishing i could let loose everything stored up in my heart about my hate of abortions, but i do not wish to be removed from iw. however i will say this, it is not just the womans body, and we forget this. but the baby has a body too. it can be held it can be felt. and as far as time early enough to abort and whent he baby is alive, most women don;t feel baby move until 4 months...ont heir first pregnancy. on my second i felt erilyn move at 11 weeks. maybe even before then, that is just an approx time. less than three months and she was moving in me. less than three months and she wanted me to know she was healthy. even a regular abortion is painful for the baby. i forget how old i was but i once saw a terrifying video of a normal abortion, and the baby tried to get away. it wanted to fight for it's life. if you wish to look up the video it was called silent scream. they call it that because you can watch the baby open it's mouth, as if to scream. now i have two children, and i hold them as the most precious things in my life. they are why i live and breathe. every child deserves the chance to be someones everything.

[Kakero]

I wanted to vote, but I don't know what's the meaning of " Pro-life" and " Pro-Choice ".

[RevRuby]

Originally posted by lethoso: 1. pro choice 2. firstly because i don't feel its my place to dictate what others choose beleive, secondly because i don't want to be on the same side as the abortion clinic bombers and other extreme christian groups.

not trying to be mean here but youre reasons are rather....flimsy. i do not agree with abortion clinic bombers, and i am not christian, but i am prolife. and being pro-life means i really don;t like bombers, i think all life should live, girls who had abortions (personally so they can regret it) and the doctors (so they can lay on their deathbed some day and know where they're headed!) the bombers are not prolife theya re anit-abortion, but one cannot be prolife and kill.

reminds me of a story once, a woman sued a clinic once because it didn;t have tight enough security. the day she was scheduled to abort her now 3 or 4 yr old child it got bombed and she was too scared to reschedule!!!!

KAKERO- prolife technically means anti-kill, a prolifer does not believe in killing, but for social ease it is being used here as anti-abortion, and pro-choice means that a woman has a right to choose to give a baby up for adoption, keep it or kill it.

thought of soemthing else funny....for adoption the father needs to sign over rights too, why not abortion?

[ 01-28-2003, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: RevRuby ]

[johnny]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by lethoso: i don't really see death penalty being relative to abortion... entirely different set of ethical questions.

I see abortion, execution, suicide, murder and euthenasia as all related. Humans taking human life.

All decrease the inherant value of human life to a society. All are action choices that have alternatives.[/QUOTE]ALL have alternatives ? How about someone who wants to commit suicide, because the pain of the cancer that eats his/her body is driving him/her insane ? What alternative do you see for that ?