How do you perceive time?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Epona: Thoran, thank you so much, you have saved me a lot of work trying to find that equation! It is absolutely fascinating isn't it? I read quite a lot of 'popular science' books on cosmology and quantum theory, and just as you think you're starting to get your head round it your brain dissolves under the strain and nothing seems to make sense any more! We don't need science fiction, it's all here and far more fantastic than most of us are able to comprehend.

I agree Epona. Thankyou too Thoran.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: I kind of agree with 250 about the nature of time - its a bit of a contradictory ideal in the way a lot of people see it. Time is infinite, so what is to say at which point of that time line we exist, consciousness exists for an infintesimally small point along that line, a line that it would be impossible to end. OK, so time could end tomorrow could it? What on earth would happen then? The Universe requires time to exist, so without time we don't get a universe. Whilst it might be possible for matter to stop existing, it would be impossible for the entire of existance to stop existing. This is a concept I find very difficult to explain... Argh! My second point is slightly concerned with what some people say about "living in the moment", bascically that that is impossible too sadly. The "moment" that we perceive at any instant has already gone, replaced by a new one which we will not perceive until a fractionally small amount of time later. The relationship between subject and object necessarily requires that the object that we see (the world in general, for example) is never the same object as the one that exists at the time of our perceiving it. OK, so maybe little has changed, but you don't know that. Of course, you can come back by saying that the only object that ever actually exist is the one that is perceived, the sensory data is the only really provable part of the process. So it would be possible to live surely in the moment, as the moment consists of only subject and subjects sensory data, no object at all. The problem with this is that it opens the door to rationalism that in turn denies the proof of the existance of time itself, which kind of makes the argument pointless. We now consider time to exist as it is a natural assumption, like the existance of matter. It is a priori knowledge. Yet if we reject the existance of a priori knowledge and reject the existance of objects in the first place then we also reject the existance of time, as unproven. Hows that for a headache then...

Certainly is. "I think...therefore I am not."

[Yorick]

Originally posted by *\Conan/*: This thread blew me away last night when I first read it Yorick. Hadn't really thought to much about it but since you asked. I view time as Linear. Even thow all of us get emotionally stuck in a moment time still goes. Reprobate minds are a physical reality not a time stopping element IMO. The reality of time for me is linear, and the true aspect of it is what you cant see, feel or hear. Many refrences in the Bible talk about a time for this and that, specific points, events. Never to be repeated again. Just me- S

That it does. Thanks Scott. [img]smile.gif[/img]

"Stuck in a Moment" by U2 is a song for the timetrapped, is it not? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cheers bro.

[whacky]

Originally posted by Epona: Thoran, thank you so much, you have saved me a lot of work trying to find that equation! It is absolutely fascinating isn't it? I read quite a lot of 'popular science' books on cosmology and quantum theory, and just as you think you're starting to get your head round it your brain dissolves under the strain and nothing seems to make sense any more! We don't need science fiction, it's all here and far more fantastic than most of us are able to comprehend.

Seriously speaking it is said that those who dont find the quantum and relitivity theory wierd/confusing havent truly understood it.
As an added note for those who didnt know the equation :-
t1 = t2/SQRT( 1 - (v^2/c^2)
is a simple derivation from lenz's transformation. Once einstein had figured the theory fitting in the eqaution was easy. But to top it off was the crown jewel
E=mc^2

My ideas and views change dynamically, and questions tend to arise in my mind asking me to wonder what actually is the truth ..... can anything actually be definite, is there something that can actually defy change, is anything actually "not" relative. Is time a fundamental quantity or is motion something more fundamental. What exactly is time ? How can you answer that, it is thought that it is "something" just something between two events, what if there were no events, then what would that something be, is time like water in the ocean of space through which universe has been sailing since eternity. What is that something we call time, if it is a dimention do we extend into the realms of time too, if so how ? What is that change which determines that time is actually passing. Was einstein actually right when he said that we couldnt travel at the speed of light, why is the speed of light actually the limit, has it got to do something with the fact that energy travels through space at that speed. Are there any energy realms, does energy exist in anyother form than "potential" to do work? How does the wonderful world of micro-physics work. How does energy change into matter? Is there anything analogue at all. Why is everything quantised, be it physical or philosophical.But the real question that pinches me is " is there anything fundamental at all or not". The answers lies in the merger of pure physics with philosophy, no matter how apart they seem to us, both have one thing in common, both are facets of "the truth" and "reality". I'm just a wanderer in quest of a drop of knowledge, seeking answers to my questions, i look forward to HIM for help and guidance. Then i ask, do i dare to face the truth, do i have the courage, what use to understand the physical world when one doesnt understand oneself, agree with me or not, all progress in only an attempt by man to know and complete himself, and as man will always remain a mystery to himself so will the truths of this physical realm.

And Yorick, regarding the question you had, time exists in all forms. Its linear for the brave and intellectuals, always in search of something new, ever eager to learn, ever vigilant. Mankind has always been slow to learn, and the narrow minded never learn so time,rather history, tends to repeat itself because of the unchanging fundamental behaviour and attitude of people, the conditions are same, the appratus is the same so are the reactants and yet they expect to seek new results, No this cannot be, unless man starts to learn form his mistakes time will run as a loop, over and over again.

-Whacky

[Timber Loftis]

[quote]Originally posted by Yorick:

Originally posted by Epona: [qb]Time, interesting subject Yorick. Re. the moving clock, that is unfathomable. How is that possible I wonder? You mention the theory of relativity, but I don't see why that would be the case regarding time. Surely it's a measurement flaw, not an indication of... [img]smile.gif[/img]

As I understand it, this phenomenon happens to all physical dimensions and not just time. The clock travelling on the train will also be of a different *size* (LxWxH) than the one sitting still on the ground a few feet away. At this proximity and low speed the difference would be very very small, but you get the picture. Quantum physics - for those who like headaches.

[Lek Dukagjin]

An Eternal Recurrence. We repeat what we have done over & over agian, unchanging. Possibly. Perhaps we CAN change some things? I dunno. I really worry about that.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Lek Dukagjin: An Eternal Recurrence. We repeat what we have done over & over agian, unchanging. Possibly.

Whoa... well that's what I and Moni have chosen NOT to see. That would be a frightening scenario.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by whacky: And Yorick, regarding the question you had, time exists in all forms. Its linear for the brave and intellectuals, always in search of something new, ever eager to learn, ever vigilant. Mankind has always been slow to learn, and the narrow minded never learn so time,rather history, tends to repeat itself because of the unchanging fundamental behaviour and attitude of people, the conditions are same, the appratus is the same so are the reactants and yet they expect to seek new results, No this cannot be, unless man starts to learn form his mistakes time will run as a loop, over and over again. -Whacky

Very well said bro. [img]smile.gif[/img]

i still say time does not exist.

If it DOES, where is it recorded?

don't give me that "light travels" stuff - that's not time travel, that's just light zooming off to wherever. You can NOT travel back or forth in time because it is not there. The universe exists as a single entity that constantly changes

We have categorised time to make it easier to measure but duration is not the same as time

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Lord Shield: i still say time does not exist. If it DOES, where is it recorded? don't give me that "light travels" stuff - that's not time travel, that's just light zooming off to wherever. You can NOT travel back or forth in time because it is not there. The universe exists as a single entity that constantly changes We have categorised time to make it easier to measure but duration is not the same as time

Very true....