Disney Forbidding Distribution of Film That Criticizes Bush Pt II

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Oblivion437: To make things more difficult, I'm going to point something out... Moore has yet to respond to the most serious criticisms levelled at his film, Bowling for Columbine, his response is over a year old and the criticisms just a little older. In the more than a year since, he has not responded, in any way, to the real criticisms, as compiled on Hardy's page. (1) The Point (2) The Counterpoint (3) The Rebuttal At stage 3 of this argument, Moore is caught with his pants down, and it ain't a pretty sight, especially when millions of Moore cheerleaders are left to either ignore or strawman the above statements into a form acceptably supportive of Moore. The Prosecution rests.

Thanks for the links, Oblivion. It made for some interesting browsing. I have to admit that the first link does a very thorough job of picking the deceptions in BfC apart and showing exactly how and why they are deceptive. I also noted that the author provided subsequent links for every accusation or declaration he made.

When I read Moore's response, I also noticed immediately that he simply ignored most of the major points made in the first link. Now I don't know for a fact that Moore was replying specifically to that page and those accusations - but I did notice that I had no idea where his first few "defenses" came from, since the first website didn't even mention any of those claims against him.

Finally, in the 3rd link, I thought the most interesting bit was at the end, where the author claims a narcissist calls anyone who disagrees with him "evil" and when anyone criticizes them, they portray themselves as "injured martyrs". THAT is the claim *I* made about Moore waaaaaaaaay back with my very first post - that he always portrays himself as the "helpless victim". It was interesting to see that I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: quote: Originally posted by Morgeruat: umm, well according to one site, Stovel means boot, or knee... http://searchenginez.com/translate_words.html

The actual word used in the original Swedish article is skitstovel. I did a Google Search for a Swedish<->English Translation Dictionary. According to that site, the English equivalent to skitstovel is a word that would result in an automatic suspension here - and perhaps even a permanent ban.

Here is the Translation Dictionary I used Swedish<->English Translation Dictionary

I'll let you look up the term skitstovel and decide for yourself what Bradbury thinks of Michael Moore. [/QUOTE]I think 'asshole' is a better translation of 'skitstövel' than that other word, as they're used with about the same frequency and has the same 'weight' as expressions. That other word is much worse.

In any case, it's clear that Bradbury doesn't like Moore.

[Grojlach]

And for those hoping/expecting that every newspaper, internet site or whatever is going to slam this movie, tough luck. Rotten Tomatoes has listed 72 positive reviews so far, as opposed to 16 negative ones (giving F9/11 an average of 82% "freshness"). And of course this site isn't ultimately conclusive or an authority in any case, but Kudos in advance to the first crybaby making a remark in this topic about "That Evil Liberal Media" and "Those Unpatriotic Manipulating Commie Hippies at RottenTomatoes.com", though.

[ 06-25-2004, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[DBear]

Ah yes, between the Clinton book and the Moore movies, our resident lefties must be having orgasms.
Here I come with the big cold shower [img]graemlins/evillaughter1.gif[/img]


New book: Michael Moore is a big fat stupid white man

Someone has to tell the truth about this nutcase

Book: 'Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man'
http://www.newsmax.com
Thursday, June 24, 2004
A just released book takes on Michael Moore as never before. Its title screams: Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man.
And surprisingly, this book has been published by the same publisher who gave us Michael Moores own runaway bestseller Stupid White Men.

Apparently, more than a few people want to take revenge on Michael Moore and the timing couldnt be better - with the release this week of his documentary attack piece on George Bush -- Fahrenheit 9/11.

Moore is so terrified by his detractors he claims that he has already hired a cabal of lawyers. He says he will sue Bush supporters who he thinks may be preparing to slander him.

Moore's hypocrisy is obvious. Slate editor Jack Shafer says Moore's hysterical, empty threats" to sue critics of his latest schlockumentary shows that he "appears to believe in free speech only for himself."

One possible target for Moores lawyers may be the publisher of his own book.

Moores one time publisher, ReganBooks, is out with a disturbing yet comical book that dismantles every cog of that propaganda machine marketed as Michael Moore.

David T. Hardy and Jason Clarke's "Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man" begins by unearthing his phony roots and goes right up to his latest "documentary." Check out NewsMax's Free Offer for this book -- Click Here


Meet the Flint-drone: Everybody knows Moore is a blue-collar guy from Flint, Mich., right? That's how he always sells himself.

In reality, he was born and raised in the wealthy, lily-white town of Davison, Mich, the authors reveal. No wonder the clown prince of self-loathing developed such a complex about hating rich, stupid white males.


In a letter to Roger Ebert of the Chicago Sun-Times last year, Moore still listed his town as Flint. In fact, despite his proclamations that "capitalism is a sin" and "an evil system," he lives in a $1.9 million apartment in Manhattan and enjoys a $1.2 million summer home on Torch Lake in Michigan.


Does not play well with others: Moore can't get along even with his fellow travelers.

Hardy and Clarke disclose how the radical magazine Mother Jones fired the "arbitrary" and "suspicious" Moore; how he started his feud with his replacement, David Talbot, who later founded Salon; how Ralph Nader's organization fired Moore; how he attacked Pauline Kael, Harlan Jacobson and other prominent critics who exposed the deceits of his schlockumentaries; how he lost a lawsuit for betraying fellow lefty activist Larry Stecco in "Roger & Me," etc.


Nor can the elitist Moore tolerate those lowly working classes and students he claims to represent.

"Big Fat Stupid White Man" gives details of how he abused the staff during a speaking engagement at London's Roundhouse Theater; how he castigated a student who dared question his hefty speaking fee; how he attacked a young documentary maker who had the nerve to give him a taste of the "Roger & Me" treatment, and so forth.

And don't forget his amusingly shrill denunciation of those awful blue-collar crewmen who, unlike his fellow multimillionaires in Hollywoods left, booed him during his tirade at the Oscars.

The book presents one example after another, alternating between frightening and hilarious, to make a brilliant case for Moore having Narcissistic Personality Disorder.


Then there's his feud with his former publisher, HarperCollins subsidiary ReganBooks, which gave us his best seller Stupid White Men and now brings us Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man.

ReganBooks, he claims, tried "to censor me and the things I wanted to say. They insisted I rewrite up to 50 percent of the book and that I remove sections that they found offensive to our leader, Mr. Bush." The company plotted "to 'pulp' and recycle all 50,000 copies of my book that were gathering dust in a warehouse," he insists.

However, ReganBooks issued a statement to NewsMax.com contradicting these allegations:

"Originally scheduled for release on September 11, 2001, the book was delayed by mutual agreement between author and publisher after the events of that day. Despite erroneous reports that have appeared in the press, the publisher never attempted to censor the book on partisan grounds, though the publisher and author did discuss replacing the original version of the book with an updated version to address the post-9/11 world. Ultimately, the decision was made to release the book in its original form, and it went on to become a huge success for both the publisher and the author. ReganBooks has since declined to exercise its option to publish another book by Mr. Moore."


After all, Moore and other members of the left-wing thought police can't bear a commitment to diversity of ideas.

Judith Regan, president and publisher of ReganBooks, noted that her company had produced books by Howard Stern and Moore as well as Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh.

"As publishers, we have an obligation to publish a wide range of ideas, opinions, and perspectives," she said in a statement issued to NewsMax. "Our job is to publish voices on the left, on the right, and everywhere in between to provide a broad range of opinion.

"We agree with Michael Moore that free expression is one of our most important human rights," Regan said, "and publishing widely and freely is the only way to honor that tradition."


Unfortunately, Moore fights his critics' right to free expression, as Slate's Shafer noted and as Hardy and Clarke document at length.


Howlers in 'Columbine': Some of the distortions and falsehoods that plague the movie "Bowling for Columbine" are already well known, but Hardy and Clarke add details and reveal new whoppers.


Moore claims that National Rifle Association taunted the Denver area and the nation by holding "a large pro-gun rally" only days after the killings at Columbine High School.
In reality, the annual meeting had been planned well in advance, was required by law, could not have been changed in time to another city, and was stripped of all rallies and ceremony in deference to the community.


The movie depicts Charlton Heston as making his famous "cold, dead hands speech" in Denver.
In reality, the remarks came a year later in Charlotte, N.C., and Moore spliced bits of footage from that and another speech for maximum distortion. "It is a lie, a fraud, and a few other things," Hardy and Clarke write.


The fantasy film claims that Heston exploited a school shooting in Mount Morris, Mich., by staging another "big pro-gun rally" in October 2002.
In reality, Hestons appearance came eight months after the shooting, at a get-out-the-vote event in nearby Flint. Others campaigning in the area around that time included Al Gore, George W. Bush and Moore himself, touting Ralph Nader.

The authors conclude: "Bowling for Columbine has less documentary value than the average Bugs Bunny cartoon. You see Heston giving a speech but it's doctored. You see history but unconnected facts are given a particular Moorewellian spin. You hear that a factory is making weapons of mass destruction actually, it's building satellite launch platforms. You're led to believe that a rally was a response to a shooting, but it turns out it was eight months later, in anticipation of an election. You watch a Bush-Quayle campaign ad, but in reality it was an ad Moore himself assembled."


'Stupid' is as stupid does: Hardy and Clarke dissect "Stupid White Men" and "Dude, Wheres My Country?" along with the latter's celluloid ugly stepchild, Fahrenheit 9/11, to delve into the heart of Moore's pathology. A few highlights:


Moore harps on his portrayal of America as a "nation of idiots" (i.e., people who disagree with him) and illiterates.
In reality, the "statistics" he offers indicating widespread illiteracy include two sizeable groups: immigrants who are often fluent in other languages but not English, and the blind and visually impaired.


Moore, who after all graduated from high school, delights in ridiculing his countrymens poor grasp of geography. "The dumbest Brit here is smarter than the smartest American," he snickers to an audience in London.
But Moore chooses not to add an important fact: young adults worldwide performed badly on the National Geographic survey he so selectively cites.


He claims that Florida wrongly disenfranchised thousands of pro-Democrat criminals in the 2000 election. "Thirty-one percent of all black men in Florida" are felons, in his paranoid fantasy world. (No wonder this limousine liberal travels in such exclusive circles.)
In reality, the Miami Herald showed that Democrat-run counties violated state law and let the overwhelmingly Democrat felons vote illegally more than 2,000 votes, most of which went to Gore.


Most importantly, "Michael Moore Is a Big Fat Stupid White Man" refutes Moore's wild attempts to implicate the president in 9/11. Every American should read these chapters. They are too detailed to summarize here, but one example will demonstrate this book's importance.

Moore claims President Bush invaded Afghanistan and toppled the Taliban so he could get an oil pipeline built. You've probably heard others parrot this allegation. A master of propaganda knows that if you repeat a lie often enough, people start to believe it.


In reality, Bush had supported Enron's plan to run pipes under the Caspian Sea and avoid Afghanistan. "Clinton was the one backing the rival Unocal plan to put them through Afghanistan," Hardy and Clarke observe.

Inspiration to terrorists: Moore's favorite claim: THERE IS NO TERRORIST THREAT!" If so, why do terrorists take succor from him?

The most damning indictment of Moore in "Big Fat Stupid White Man": the salute offered by Imam Samudra, leader of the Muslim terrorist bombers who murdered 202 people, mostly Australians and other tourists, two years ago at Paddy's nightclub in Bali.

"I saw lots of whiteys dancing and lots of whiteys drinking there," Samudra told Indonesian police. The authors note, "It was 'Kill Whitey' (to quote a chapter heading in Stupid White Men) with a vengeance."


Samudra's attorney Qaidar Faisal concluded his defense by praising the Taliban and quoting from "anti-western texts" including Moore's "Stupid White Men."


Despite all the appalling revelations in "Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man," it's hard to finish the book without feeling pity for this man.

Had he used his talents to make actual documentaries and write books devoid of distortion and mendacity, he could have offered a useful critique of the Bush administration's flaws.

Instead, fueled by a narcissism that springs from hatred of self and others, he mangles reality to dupe the uninformed, delight the blame-America-first crowd and even inspire terrorists.

He concentrates his venom on one politician and one party but damages a nation.

"Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man" marks a confident step in undoing his damage.

more info on the false front of moore can be found here:

http://moorelies.com

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

http://www.moorewatch.com/

http://www.mooreexposed.com/

[ 06-25-2004, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: DBear ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by MagiK: Man Chewie you just cannot give it up can you??

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN:

The pot has called the kettle black.

The Swedish Article I linked to way back when was THE original interview, there has been NO change in his attitude, he has been and continues to be pissed off at Moore.

I never said Bradbury wasn't pissed off. You are free to ignore the obvious disparity between one news source and 400 + other sources running the story. To be specific- one telling of an interveiw is markedly different than 400+ other tellings of an interveiw. Not to mention the story run by the BBC and all those other news sources is attributed to the AP, not a Swedish news source. So unless you have proof that refutes these points, you may want to retract all your huffing and puffing about me being wrong and perhaps stop demanding apologies where none is warranted.

Edit: It is apparent that the BBC and WND cleaned up the rather foul invective to get past their obscenity censors. sheesh How hard is it to admit your wrong about WND?

It is hard to admit being wrong when, in fact and in more ways than one, I am quite correct- Most assuredly correct in having an opinion and verily correct to be skeptical. You may disagree with my opinion, you may hate my opinion. You may hate me for having my opinion. But you cannot, in fact, tell me my opinion is wrong nor demand an apology from me for having my opinion.

My opinion of the WND is that it is a poor source of information that has a history of using unconfirmed sources and is quite biased, therefore subject to skepticism IMO. To sum up my opinion about World Net Daily in a nutshell- I think it is rag not worth the server space it is hosted on and is like a pile of steaming poop in a pasture.

Good Day,

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by DBear: Ah yes, between the Clinton book and the Moore movies, our resident lefties must be having orgasms. Here I come with the big cold shower [img]graemlins/evillaughter1.gif[/img]

*shrugs* Business as usual, right?
But no, I couldn't care less about Clinton's book, and Moore's movie is obviously going to have its flaws just the same, just like BfC did. I'm not even sure if people realise it, but it's the laughable attempts of certain representatives of the right to discredit Moore in everything, however insignificant, he says or does that amuses me the most of this entire circus.
So, keep it up!

[ 06-25-2004, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by DBear: http://www.newsmax.com

Ah Newsmax, another one of those steaming dung factories. Thanks, but no thanks.


I do find it ironic that Moore's detractors in the media crusify him for doing the exact same stuff that they themselves do: Telling one side of the story, obfuscating facts, all- around slinging mud...Such is life in a partisan world.

[Davros]

WOOHOO - we have an OZ release date for F911 - July 29 [img]smile.gif[/img] .

And Cerek - shame on you - you won't give the movie itself a viewing yet you immediately jump to see what our resident weapons master Oblivion references from the sites of the gun lobby. Mind you I could be out on my own on this one, but that is looking at only one side of the fence - Tsk Tsk .

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: I do find it ironic that Moore's detractors in the media crusify him for doing the exact same stuff that they themselves do: Telling one side of the story, obfuscating facts, all- around slinging mud...Such is life in a partisan world.

Almost as ironic as those always complaining about the Right's telling one side of the story, obfuscating facts, and all- around slinging mud saying that those actions, when attributed to Moore, are non-issues?

Almost as ironic as comparing partisan news websites, which oppose one's point of view, to poop, while defending a partisan, poop filled propaganda film and its maker as valid?

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Davros: WOOHOO - we have an OZ release date for F911 - July 29 [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow, and we're going to watch it one day next week. What are those techniques you use to void yourself after watching Fox News again? I may need the step by step.

I think I'll save the 'WOOHOO' for Spider-Man 2, which we're also going to see next week. [img]smile.gif[/img]