Double standards on Israel - Palestine

[WOLFGIR]

Hehe! I know I shouldn´t have brought that comparison! It´s a fragile one and you showed that right away Fljotsadle!

Well the point is that outwards most (oki another try ) families have a united surface, even though there might be turmoils within. I know alot of israels, and Palestinians that doesn´t like what their countries are doing. Unfortunatley, they are so stuck in the system to be listened too..

OKI, the family matters mostly are based on my views on how it should be, and well once again, we always refer to our on reflections and preferences.. No matter how hard we try to keep them out!

Good post as well Fljotsdale, as usual from you! You and Yorrick do bug my mind hehe! I like that!

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Be vevvy qwiet..I´m hunting wabbits...
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

[Yorick]

Originally posted by G'kar: That is one way to perceive such a situation. Perhaps we are both right, or is that too much to ask? No hard feelings, I hope?

Spoken like a true pantheist...
Mate, I was never talking about inner peace. Whenever I talk about inner peace I will quantify it with "inner" in front of "peace", as I suggest you do.

The situation I was talking about cannot be both peaceful and violent. That is a contradiction. Light and darkness cannot exist in the same space. Light destroys darkness, and darkness' existence is an absence of light.

Peace is the absence of conflict. Two forces existing in harmony. An individual can be at war with themself. Hence we have an awareness of inner peace - cessation of internal conflict.

Like light destroying darkness, so conflict destroys peace.

Thus, as per my original statement, we need two parties co-operation to create peace. Regardless of whether one, or both are possessors of inner peace.

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 09-26-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: The reason I posted my post was because I am getting very tired of the media and political portrayal of the Palestinians as merely terrorists, whilst the Israelis, who fight just as dirty, are seen as being defenders of their state, and justified and legal in what they do, which is far from the case. I have a certain sympathy for both sides, for different reasons. I wish both sides could agree to live together in peace and harmony. However, at present that looks like a dream that is very far from being realised. I think that the little booklet I mention is very illuminating on this whole topic. People owe it to themselves to look at the background, rather than just accept the generally accepted point of view which is perpetrated in the media. (Before you start stamping on my head here - I am not talking about you here! Although I do not agree with your viewpoint, I accept that you have researched your point. There are many views of history, depending on who is doing the telling. In the end, which version you go with is going to depend on whether it acceptable, given your own personal beliefs, experience and world view, and the same goes for me.) Yorick - if we are to talk further on this, can we please keep it friendly and polite? I do not want to enter into an aggressive discussion on this matter, and will not. I will post more on this later or tomorrow. For the present I must leave it there, as I have little time.

Silver Cheetah, from my perspective the media does not portray the situation fairly. All to often I hear opinions such as yours. I don't know how the situation is in England, but in Australia there are way more Arabs than Jews. Even in high school as a child I remember hearing constant criticisms about Israel, and I would often think "What are they to do? Not exist?"

Your argument is more prvalent than you perhaps realise. I apologise if my post was overly aggressive and if my Nazi analogy was offensive to you. It was my intent to create a realisation that that kind of thinking does not promote a workable solution to the eternal "problem" of the Jewish nation.

Have a good day Silver


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Yes, most parents will defend their child against another, even if the child is in the wrong. And that applies broadly to 'border' issues as well. But not all parents are like that. Some look to find out WHO is right and who wrong before taking action, and if they discover their child is in the wrong, will punish him/her accordingly and make him/her apologise/make reparation for the wrong done. If countries could be brought to act that way, instead of in the 'mine, right or wrong' way, we might get peace in this world. Of course the liklihood of such balanced behaviour in such a savage species as ours is remote.

Well said and I agree.

The sentiment of "my country, right or wrong" is responsible for untold amounts of injustice and evil in the world. Better to correct your country (or child) if it is in the wrong, rather than assist it in being so.

[WOLFGIR]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Well said and I agree. The sentiment of "my country, right or wrong" is responsible for untold amounts of injustice and evil in the world. Better to correct your country (or child) if it is in the wrong, rather than assist it in being so.

Well the question was like this.. Will you let your neighbour teach your kid? Or will you let your neighbour more or less slap your kid around for him being wrong?

But ok, it was a bad one, so I will let it drop with this. I hope you do understand what I tried to say at least..


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Be vevvy qwiet..I´m hunting wabbits...
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: Silver Cheetah, from my perspective the media does not portray the situation fairly. All to often I hear opinions such as yours. I don't know how the situation is in England, but in Australia there are way more Arabs than Jews. Even in high school as a child I remember hearing constant criticisms about Israel, and I would often think "What are they to do? Not exist?" Your argument is more prvalent than you perhaps realise. I apologise if my post was overly aggressive and if my Nazi analogy was offensive to you. It was my intent to create a realisation that that kind of thinking does not promote a workable solution to the eternal "problem" of the Jewish nation. Have a good day Silver

I disagree, Yorick. In order for any workable solution to come about, the Israelis (and perhaps the rest of the world) have to acknowledge their own role in creating the problem.

Denying the role of the Israelis, or denying that the creation of Israel itself in 1948 is the source of the problem, is exactly what we are doing now, politically speaking. That denial hasn't exactly created a resolution of the problem, now has it?

In order for any workable solution to come about, the past has to be faced openly and honestly, not denied and lost under blind faith of divine right and total innocence.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Well said and I agree. The sentiment of "my country, right or wrong" is responsible for untold amounts of injustice and evil in the world. Better to correct your country (or child) if it is in the wrong, rather than assist it in being so.

And what if, despite correction, your child is "wronged" by another? What then?

Also who is the "child" and who is the "parent" in this scenario? We're not seriously entertaining the imperialist notion that America or Britain are in a position to discipline their "child" Israel are we?

It is a nations right to defend themselves against attack if the existence of the said country is threatened. America are doing so now, though the nation is nowhere near as fragile, nor surrounded, as Israel. Britain have done so in the past. Both have engaged in wars of conquest, expansion and colonialisation.

I hardly think the citizens of the British Empire, nor the American Empire are in a postion to criticise Israel....



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: And what if, despite correction, your child is "wronged" by another? What then? Also who is the "child" and who is the "parent" in this scenario? We're not seriously entertaining the imperialist notion that America or Britain are in a position to discipline their "child" Israel are we? It is a nations right to defend themselves against attack if the existence of the said country is threatened. America are doing so now, though the nation is nowhere near as fragile, nor surrounded, as Israel. Britain have done so in the past. Both have engaged in wars of conquest, expansion and colonialisation. I hardly think the citizens of the British Empire, nor the American Empire are in a postion to criticise Israel....

Yorick, you are carrying the child analogy too far. That is not what either I or Fljotsdale were saying.

In any case, if the position that we are to take is that because each of us as individuals, or as countries, have done wrong in the past, that we can never work to prevent wrong in the present or future, then mankind is doomed.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: I disagree, Yorick. In order for any workable solution to come about, the Israelis (and perhaps the rest of the world) have to acknowledge their own role in creating the problem. Denying the role of the Israelis, or denying that the creation of Israel itself in 1948 is the source of the problem, is exactly what we are doing now, politically speaking. That denial hasn't exactly created a resolution of the problem, now has it? In order for any workable solution to come about, the past has to be faced openly and honestly, not denied and lost under blind faith of divine right and total innocence.

Dio, yours and Cheetahs post deny the problem of the Arabian Islamic invasion. That is where the problem begins, not in 1948. It is like suggesting that the Catholic/Protestant problem started when Northern Ireland was created seperately from Eire. The problem is deeper and originates earlier.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: Dio, yours and Cheetahs post deny the problem of the Arabian Islamic invasion. That is where the problem begins, not in 1948. It is like suggesting that the Catholic/Protestant problem started when Northern Ireland was created seperately from Eire. The problem is deeper and originates earlier.

Yorick, think about what you are saying. Are we to go back 1,500 years ago and rearrange the world's people's the way they were then?

Are we to hold grudges for 1,500 years?

Why in the world do we see the absurdity of that position for every people on earth, EXCEPT for the Israelis? Is it religious?