ROTK: Reviewed --- SPOILERS

[shadowhound]

Originally posted by Intrepid: My major complaint was the so called "comic relief" provided by Gimli. I understand that this lightens the atmosphere of the movie, but it is supposted to be potraying the ultimate evil of Sauron and the bitterness of the land, not having the audiance laughing at a stupid dwarf. In the Book Gimli was a brave warrier. they could have at least not put in lame jokes in the middle of a battle Do you think comic relief was nessicary?

Are you honestly saying that you did not find it amusing when Legolas kill the Olliphant and Gimli quipped that "It still only counts for one" (or something along those lines)?

[Tancred]

There are trace elements of the gruff, the proud and the amusing in the Gimli of the book. And the grumbling! The grumbling is in there too. The main difference is that in the film Gimli is portrayed as the 'old man' of the Fellowship, whereas in the book he's more of an eager youngster dwarf.

[Dar'tanian]

Originally posted by Link: Imagine him saying "Mr Anderson" from under a beard

HAHA I just wait for him to say that to Arowen in the movie, "Yes Mr. Arowen."

[Link]

Followed by a slap in the face from Arwen yelling at her father "That's Miss Arwen, daddy!"

[Morgeruat]

(I think he was referring to Aragorn as Mr. Arwen)

[Dar'tanian]

No I was refering to Arowen...it would be funnier...now I have a question that isnt a big deal but somebody like six should be able to take this one.


Now I know Elrond is half elf who choose to be immortal, and I know that the Dunedain are mortals that where granted extra long life (hence Aragorn is 87 during these books and he is a grey cloak) but in the books Tolkein says that Elronds sons are Grey cloaks, so does this mean they are mortal or is this just a loose end....someone explain, its been bugging me....??

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Dar'tanian: Now I know Elrond is half elf who choose to be immortal, and I know that the Dunedain are mortals that where granted extra long life (hence Aragorn is 87 during these books and he is a grey cloak) but in the books Tolkein says that Elronds sons are Grey cloaks, so does this mean they are mortal or is this just a loose end....someone explain, its been bugging me....??

First off, wearing a grey cloak is not a "rank" they way is is with, say, the Greycloaks of Evereska, it's just....a grey cloak.

Very brief history of the Numenoreans:
In the First Age of the Sun, 3 Houses of Men aided the Elves in their war against Morgoth. At the end of that Age, those Houses were rewarded with the grant of the island of Numenor (counterpart to our legends of Atlantis), a greatly extended lifespan (Elros, the first King of Numenor, lived over 500 years), and education (Elves, and some of the Maiar, came among them and taught them, though later on the Numenorians developed their own arts as well).
Much later, near the end of the Second Age, Sauron was captured and brought to Numenor, where he used his powers of persuasion to convince the Kings to make war upon the Valar. As punishment, the island of Numenor was destroyed. The survivors of the cataclysm were the Faithful, those of the Numenoreans who had remained true to the ways of the Elves and the Valar, who set sail towards Middle-Earth before Numenor was sunk. The Faithful were led by Elendil (a kinsman of the King), and his sons Isildur and Anarion. They brought with them certain treasures of the royal household ("What brought the tall kings from far across the sea? / Seven ships and seven stones and one white tree," referring to the Palantiri and the scion of Nimloth). There were also some Numenorean settlements on the shores of Middle-Earth that had already been established for a few hundred years, including the havens of Umbar, stronghold of the Black Numenoreans, a sect that had broken off and started worshipping Sauron--and among whom Sauron distributed his Nine Rings.
After Sauron's defeat at the end of the Second Age, two major Numenorean kingdoms arose: Gondor and Arnor were ruled by the sons of Anarion and Isildur, respectively. At one point, the king of Arnor divided his lands among his three sons, and the resulting realms became dissolute, sometimes fighting among themselves, which robbed them of the unity they needed against the necromancy of the new realm of Angmar (northern reaches of the Misty Mountains, ruled by the Witch-king of Angmar, aka Lord of the Nazgul). The 3 kingdoms of what was Arnor fell one by one, but some traces of the noble line remained, and became the Rangers of the North, the Dunedain. Their cloaks are probably grey to represent that they care no longer for ornament or ceremony--they are noblemen in exile, and must perform noble actions without the luxury of the wealthy. Their only real token is a single silver star at the throat of their cloaks.
As for the sons of Elrond, they might wear the cloak and star because they, too, are related to Elendil (although in a completely different way--their father is Elendil's great-great-great-....great-great-granduncle), or because they, too, must go out into the wild lands and do unrecorded feats of derring-do against the forces of evil, or simply because they want to fit in. They are NOT mortal.

(Note: Middle-earth is the name of a continent, not the planet itself. Valinor is the other main continent, and some maps also show the "Sun Lands," east of Middle-Earth.)

[Dar'tanian]

Well I thought DUnedain transalted directly to "Grey Cloak"...and I belived that thoose who satyed loyal to the valar where granted extra long life there for they got the name; Dunedain(except for the elves ofcourse)...am I atleast correct about that part?

(P.S: It also is a possibilty that in the book the Sons of Elrond just road with the DUnedain to aid Aragorn in the Dimholt, I could have read it wrong, but thnx six)

And another question is this....this should be an easy one sry, Aragorn is the son of Arathorn, in the line of Isildur and heir to the throne....well what happened with Arathorn how come he never go to rule...?

[ 01-16-2004, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Dar'tanian ]

[SixOfSpades]

Dar'tanian, you know you're going to have to read LotR and the Silmarillion eventually, so why not just do it now? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Tancred]

Originally posted by Dar'tanian: Well I thought DUnedain transalted directly to "Grey Cloak"...and I belived that thoose who satyed loyal to the valar where granted extra long life there for they got the name; Dunedain(except for the elves ofcourse)...am I atleast correct about that part?

Pretty much, except 'Dunedain' is derived from 'dun-adan', elvish for 'Numenorean' (literally 'man of the West').

I remembered that without having to look it up. Jeez. I'm going to drink some wine now.