views on the thief - Page 6

Baros · 01-31-2003, 10:53 AM

I've got three games running simultaneously (which is getting confusing) to test these things and find which one I prefer. All these characters are solo at the moment.

zxc the half-elf fighter/assassin will be dropped quickly (let's face it, if I couldn't be bothered naming him he wasn't going to last). He's limited to ** in any proficiency (no multi GM for me), but he basically rocks. Thieving skills are very light, but long term he will be almost unstoppable.

Garett the Human Fighter/Assassin is interesting. As a level 7 fighter he got 6 proficiencies and put 3 in x-bow, 2 in short sword. I dualled him at level 10. A thief requires just 240k XP to get back to that level (to put this in
perspective you get 40k+ for answering the riddle in the circus and freeing Aerie). Something I didn't know is that once he gets to that level he can add additional prof. points into existing ones. He'll be able to attain GM in anything he needs to. Since he's now levelling up as a thief he's very quickly going to get very powerful. The additional attacks and HP from starting as a fighter make a huge difference, plus he can wear a helmet and use any weapon. He can stand toe to toe with most things at this stage without having to rely on thieving tricks. All this tells me is that any dual/multi fighter is incredibly powerful if you put your mind to it.

The final one is the character I brought through BG1 - Baros, who is a single class Assassin. It's only having played with the other two that I realised how poor his thac0 and damage are! He's the most fun at the moment and will provide the best entertainment (I'm striving to stick to the concept so no CF this time).

The thing which stands out most of all from all this is that critical hits are very dangerous. What makes this more galling is the situation regarding head-gear - helmets are cheap and plentiful, no fighter would ever be without one. Multi-class characters wear helmets without any penalties (mages can cast, thieves can steal - contrast the situation with armour). There are no non-magical items of headgear wearable by either of those two classes (I presume bards suffer with this as well). Is there any real justification for this?

Butterfingers · 01-31-2003, 11:23 AM

There is a helmet your thief can wear. King Strom's Deathmask, I think that's the name of it. You find it in Big Red's lair and put all the pieces together. It does protect against critical hits. Any class can wear it. But it makes you look like a bucket head dork.

SixOfSpades · 01-31-2003, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baros:
There are no non-magical items of headgear wearable by either of those two classes [Mage and Thief]. Is there any real justification for this?

Do you have some sort of objection to magical headgear for your Wizards and Rogues? Because magical headgear certainly exists, in the form of Ioun Stones. They protect against Critical Hits as well, because everybody knows that a small rock floating around your head can deflect incoming Arrows and Warhammers just as well as any Helmet can.

Baros · 01-31-2003, 01:57 PM

I'd forgotten about the King's deathmask. If anyone could carry off that look it would be me.

The reason I specified non-magical headgear is specifically because of the ioun stones - although remember that originally they were meant to be restricted to the same classes that could wear helmets. They are also rare and generally difficult to get hold of. Note also that ToB adds an unenchanted Thieves Hood (in WK)

My point was that there is a ubiquitous item that protects against something deadly, but only certain classes can use it despite the fact that it doesn't hamper the ones who can't. First off - the game mechanics are screwed, secondly it doesn't make sense that ONLY a helmet (or similar) can protect against criticals. Thirdly - which character in their right mind wouldn't wear a helmet?

"Master, why can I not wear a helmet?"
"Child, you are a mage"
"But... Gonzo wears one"
"Child, he is a fighter-mage"
"But... He can cast spells whilst wearing one"
"child, if you want to, then try it"
"Master, some unseen force prevents me from putting it on my head"
"Child, that is the D&D rules"

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01-31-2003, 10:53 AM	#51
Baros Manshoon Join Date: January 3, 2003 Location: Leeds, UK Age: 49 Posts: 171	I've got three games running simultaneously (which is getting confusing) to test these things and find which one I prefer. All these characters are solo at the moment. zxc the half-elf fighter/assassin will be dropped quickly (let's face it, if I couldn't be bothered naming him he wasn't going to last). He's limited to ** in any proficiency (no multi GM for me), but he basically rocks. Thieving skills are very light, but long term he will be almost unstoppable. Garett the Human Fighter/Assassin is interesting. As a level 7 fighter he got 6 proficiencies and put 3 in x-bow, 2 in short sword. I dualled him at level 10. A thief requires just 240k XP to get back to that level (to put this in perspective you get 40k+ for answering the riddle in the circus and freeing Aerie). Something I didn't know is that once he gets to that level he can add additional prof. points into existing ones. He'll be able to attain GM in anything he needs to. Since he's now levelling up as a thief he's very quickly going to get very powerful. The additional attacks and HP from starting as a fighter make a huge difference, plus he can wear a helmet and use any weapon. He can stand toe to toe with most things at this stage without having to rely on thieving tricks. All this tells me is that any dual/multi fighter is incredibly powerful if you put your mind to it. The final one is the character I brought through BG1 - Baros, who is a single class Assassin. It's only having played with the other two that I realised how poor his thac0 and damage are! He's the most fun at the moment and will provide the best entertainment (I'm striving to stick to the concept so no CF this time). The thing which stands out most of all from all this is that critical hits are very dangerous. What makes this more galling is the situation regarding head-gear - helmets are cheap and plentiful, no fighter would ever be without one. Multi-class characters wear helmets without any penalties (mages can cast, thieves can steal - contrast the situation with armour). There are no non-magical items of headgear wearable by either of those two classes (I presume bards suffer with this as well). Is there any real justification for this?

01-31-2003, 11:23 AM	#52
Butterfingers Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: November 30, 2002 Location: Five Flagons Inn Posts: 633	There is a helmet your thief can wear. King Strom's Deathmask, I think that's the name of it. You find it in Big Red's lair and put all the pieces together. It does protect against critical hits. Any class can wear it. But it makes you look like a bucket head dork.

01-31-2003, 01:57 PM	#54
Baros Manshoon Join Date: January 3, 2003 Location: Leeds, UK Age: 49 Posts: 171	I'd forgotten about the King's deathmask. If anyone could carry off that look it would be me. The reason I specified non-magical headgear is specifically because of the ioun stones - although remember that originally they were meant to be restricted to the same classes that could wear helmets. They are also rare and generally difficult to get hold of. Note also that ToB adds an unenchanted Thieves Hood (in WK) My point was that there is a ubiquitous item that protects against something deadly, but only certain classes can use it despite the fact that it doesn't hamper the ones who can't. First off - the game mechanics are screwed, secondly it doesn't make sense that ONLY a helmet (or similar) can protect against criticals. Thirdly - which character in their right mind wouldn't wear a helmet? "Master, why can I not wear a helmet?" "Child, you are a mage" "But... Gonzo wears one" "Child, he is a fighter-mage" "But... He can cast spells whilst wearing one" "child, if you want to, then try it" "Master, some unseen force prevents me from putting it on my head" "Child, that is the D&D rules"

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