The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

[Ladyzekke]

Awww, 250 your English is just fine! Sometimes it is me, and I don't understand. No biggie, as all I have to do is ask you to rephrase, and you have done so, and I understand now!

You said:

the flaw is not a flaw unless it can POTENTIALLY cause impact. so if a spirit is never born, its flaw will never inflict any damage, right? of course, to let the spirits learn and grow makes more sense, because that would be just like God himself, and that sounds more like God's way

Yes 250, and if all this is already "pre-planned", then actually people's flaws will help other people's flaws, if that makes sense. For example (and this is off the top of my head, so a really lame-O example, could think of better, but it's getting late and I'm tired, so this is all I got atm: Say Guy#1 flaw is being hurried, and not taking time out to notice things; say Gal#2 is lazy and slow, notices all, but never gets anywhere. Both have flaws, but together, they may learn from eachother, and thus fix their flaws.


You said: same with how we human came to exist. it was just one sparkle of fire that ignited a tremendous explosive creation billions of trillions years ago, then, BOOM, we came to live. that is hardly a coincidence, it is the inevitable. and it does not require a God to make it happen


Well, yes, there is a scientific, biological if you will, history of our planet's creation. But what keeps our heart beating? What keeps US alive? What makes us all different? Is it just a coincidence or what that our planet has so many things upon it that are usable and helpful to us humans. And is love a biological thing only? Dunno, there just seems to be "thought" put into the making of this planet we live on, not just random biological sporadic life.

Again, 250 my friend, you're talking to someone who has strong faith, and just feels it, always have, and I have a history of my prayers being answered in huge ways.

I must say though that I find your statements quite interesting, things I never even thought of before LOL. Even if I have another view, doesn't mean I don't respect what you think as well



------------------

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by 250: I am not christian, and I know little why is there a God? why does he create the world? why does he care? he creates human just so that humans can suffer, moan, progress and accept his love? why does he care? If he is so mighty, surely there is no reason for him to create us? and why and what does it mean that he loves us? we could never existed, and it wouldn't matter to anyone because he is the God right? anyone explain this to me? Yorick? Larry? [This message has been edited by 250 (edited 09-08-2001).]

Good questions 250, these are the same questions mankind has been asking since the begining, and some of them I would like to ask God myself when I meet Him.

Why is there a God? I have no idea why God is all I know is that He says "I am Who I am". I plan on asking Him why myself when I meet Him, but until then "I am" is good enough for me.

Why does he create the world? I plan on asking Him that too. I suspect it is because He has love to give.

He creates human just so that humans can suffer, moan, progress and accept his love? He loves us and wants us to accept his love, the suffering, mouning, and the like come about because we bring it on ourselves. It has to do with free will I believe. There's a saying "If you love something set it free if it comes back to you it's yours. If it doesn't come back it never was" Those of us that Love the Lord come back to Him, those that don't love the Lord don't come back.

If he is so mighty, surely there is no reason for him to create us? There is no reason that we know of, except that He loves.

And why and what does it mean that he loves us? He gave us this world to live in, and the freedom to choose our own course. More importantly He gave His Son to Die for our sins, because nothing we do can erase sin.

We could never existed, and it wouldn't matter to anyone because he is the God
It would matter to Him.

I hope that helps. There are questions that we will probibily not get an answer to in this life, but as you said He is the God.


------------------

"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[Jafin]

250, you don't necessarily have to accept these things about pre-life or such things right away. The first thing is to accept that God is real and that he loves you. That is the first and most important one. Then you can learn from there. It is important to know that God is there and always with us, no matter what we do or where we go. He will always be there to turn to and help you, no matter what. If ever I'm confused, I simply open the Bible and read. It always helps. In my experience, you learn more as you grow and growing is just like Larry's example of the seed. The seed starts small but as it is watered, it grows and it continues to grow into a plant and then continues and continues throughout its lifetime. It is the same with people. Our faith starts small, but as we learn more about God and his Word, we grow and we continue to grow throughout our lives. Right now, you just have to recognize that God is there and that he loves you, no matter what.

-Jafin

------------------

Arch-Mage of the HADB
Destroyer of the evil Bunnies
Guardian of Boo and best friend of Minsc

[250]

Originally posted by John D Harris: Good questions 250, these are the same questions mankind has been asking since the begining, and some of them I would like to ask God myself when I meet Him. Why is there a God? I have no idea why God is all I know is that He says "I am Who I am". I plan on asking Him why myself when I meet Him, but until then "I am" is good enough for me. Why does he create the world? I plan on asking Him that too. I suspect it is because He has love to give. He creates human just so that humans can suffer, moan, progress and accept his love? He loves us and wants us to accept his love, the suffering, mouning, and the like come about because we bring it on ourselves. It has to do with free will I believe. There's a saying "If you love something set it free if it comes back to you it's yours. If it doesn't come back it never was" Those of us that Love the Lord come back to Him, those that don't love the Lord don't come back. If he is so mighty, surely there is no reason for him to create us? There is no reason that we know of, except that He loves. And why and what does it mean that he loves us? He gave us this world to live in, and the freedom to choose our own course. More importantly He gave His Son to Die for our sins, because nothing we do can erase sin. We could never existed, and it wouldn't matter to anyone because he is the God It would matter to Him. I hope that helps. There are questions that we will probibily not get an answer to in this life, but as you said He is the God.

thanks, Harris, this is the first time you answered my post
well, maybe it is because this is the first time I get serious?
anyway, thanks for your effort, but your answers are truely like puzzle answering puzzle, only made me more confused. I am still chewing on the idea of "faith" and God, I will get back to you later, and re-read your answers many times, I just need some time for all those ideas. once again, thanks
Leo

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by 250: [B so, forget about my first question, now lets go for the second one: what I was saying is, no matter how low the possibility, as long as it is possble, it can happen. just like those "rare" items, because it is possible for them to drop, therefore, there are the people who get them. same with how we human came to exist. it was just one sparkle of fire that ignited a tremendous explosive creation billions of trillions years ago, then, BOOM, we came to live. that is hardly a coincidence, it is the inevitable. and it does not require a God to make it happen does that make me clear?[/B]

Where did that sparkle come from? That 250 is the question of the ages.I have no problem with the big bang theory or evolution. Because God started it all, therefore He is responsible for the creation just like the Bible says "In the begining God created the heavens and the Earth"



------------------

"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[Larry_OHF]

While most churches teach basic things, and the preacher stands up and talks about everyone going to hell, my church focuses on other things.
The Creation is a biggie in our church, as well as most of the questions asked here tonight. I am not a good teacher, even though I was on a mission for my church for two years.
There is so much more that I would like to share, but it would take you having a great deal of understanding and patience with me to explain it.
And we have not even got past the easy stuff yet!
I wish Draconia were here.
She could help me out with this.

------------------

Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[250]

Originally posted by John D Harris: Where did that sparkle come from? That 250 is the question of the ages.I have no problem with the big bang theory or evolution. Because God started it all, therefore He is responsible for the creation just like the Bible says "In the begining God created the heavens and the Earth"

the sparkle is a pure coincidence, while it is the inevitable. I mean, the universe has been there for long, any weird little chemical reaction can happen.

and to Ladyzekke, "what makes our heart beat?" if our hearts dont beat, we wouldn't be alive. I call that a failure of creation. it just happens that out of trillions of such "coincidence" and failures of creation, we are the lucky ones that came to live.

a VERY VERY VERY inappriate example would be... errr... think about how a baby is created ... out of 50 billion *cough* *cough* got my meaning? there must be one successful at the end


and Larry, I have the patience, because I am curious share anything you think would help. lets see how much I can absorb.

so far, God's ways had made great sense to me, but the very same question still puzzles me "what if those are just some wise old man's bed time story?" sorry, very srooy, I don't mean to be offensive

and yes, I will keep my heart open, I just don't know what to believe

I am still thinking


[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 09-08-2001).]

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by 250: thanks, Harris, this is the first time you answered my post well, maybe it is because this is the first time I get serious? anyway, thanks for your effort, but your answers are truely like puzzle answering puzzle, only made me more confused. I am still chewing on the idea of "faith" and God, I will get back to you later, and re-read your answers many times, I just need some time for all those ideas. once again, thanks Leo

250 (Leo), I think the last time we talked we were scraping (southern for fighting) over the spy plane. won't go back into that...Bad Harris Bad.
You're right it is alot like answering a puzzle with a puzzle. The problem as I see it is how do we (finite) human grasp the ways of God (infinte). The only way that I know of is faith.


------------------

"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[This message has been edited by John D Harris (edited 09-09-2001).]

[anomie]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: In the Garden of Eden, God said to Adam that he could eat of the fruit of any of the trees of the Garden, except for one: The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (acutally my translation says "bad" instead of "evil" but the latter sounds more impressive ) The Garden of Eden was a paradise on earth, without work or toil, where Adam and Eve simply wandered and ate of the fruits of the earth (And did Lord knows what else, being naked and all ) When Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating of the forbidden tree, to gain the knowledge of good and evil, God punished them by driving them and their descendants out of the Garden of Eden forever, and cursing they and mankind with hardship and turmoil and eating of the dust of the earth. According to Genesis in the Bible, Adam and Eve really had gained the knowledge of Good and Evil from eating of the tree, to which they had been blind before. This myth has long fascinated me, but i am not sure what it means. I have a theory, a somewhat unconventional one. Anybody have any thoughts they would like to share, as to why Adam and Eve should be kicked out of paradise after gaining the knowledge of good and evil?

First, let me say that I am not a Christian, nor do I play one on TV.

This may be boring in light of all of the resulting posts, but what about the simple idea that this is an allegory (not sure of proper literary term) about taking consequences for your actions. More broadly, it is a metaphor (again not sure of term) for life, it is an invitation to LIVE. Without the ability to personally discern good from bad, we can not even get out of bed in the morning. Life is about variation, and being able to judge what is good for us vs. what is bad. Without this, admittedly totally subjective, sense of good and evil, there is no life.

Living in Bliss, without knowledge of pleasure or pain, Paradise sounds like a pretty boring place to me. :->

Hope this makes some sense to someone,



------------------

The problem I have with the whole Garden of Eden myth is the persceptive that god, portrayed as a seperate entity from humanity, doles out an arbritary judgement. Where is the tolerance, forgivness, and compassion in this judgement?
Heres a strange notion that may irritate some christians.
The whole story makes alot more sense if the roles of god and satan were played as physical beings, rather than spiritual. Of course such an outlandish theory basicly demonizes and destroys the foundations of Christianity. To think in a time not too far past I could have been burnt at the stake for even hypothosizing such a notion. God, a physical entity, like a human? Well if the "god" was limited by a human-like perspective, he is certainly is capable of such a course of error. And that would explain why he has to compete with "satan", not just vanquish him out of hand, in an omnipotent way.