School, Why do we go to school?

[Nydlari]

Originally posted by Sazerac: There's one reason why I advocate getting a degree through a technical institute such as DeVry, where they train you in what you NEED rather than a lot of B.S.)

Oh, I hate DeVry grads. They are absolutely incapable of thinking for themselves. I don't think I've been able to promote a single DeVry or tech grad in 6 years. They're fine for about a year or two, but as soon as we ugrade our equipment, they become useless. They just can't seem to learn how to adjust to new situations. If everything isn't laid out for them in black and white with no variation from the norm, they just stare at you with a dumb look on their face asking what to do next. I give them the users manuals, tell them to take their time and read it through; they return in 8 hours and ask me where the ON button is. Oh, how I wish I had more of a say in hiring...

But anyway,
I'm a little disturbed by the way a number of posts have tossed arround baseless percentages like "60% of all of the students will probably never find ANY use for any of what they've been taught there in whatever job they end up with." One of the things I hope is taught in school is the need to know your source, and a clear sign that a source is either decietful or inacurate is the use of unsubstanciated percentiles. And worse, the response to these statements has been in the form of either 'well you don't know who is going to need what so you need to teach everything to everyone' or 'well it's not the knowledge itself so much as your learning to learn.' Bull, people use what they learned in school all the time, they just don't realize they are doing it. One person brought up alliteration. I'd wager, at some point in the lives of everyone on this board, each and every one of us has used alliteration. You may not have conciously thought "I'm going to alliterate now," but you had been exposed to it in school, and when the appropriate moment presented itself, you used it. How about algebra? Geez this is a CRPG board, do I really need to detail all the power applied algebra gives to a CRPG power player?

The point: EVERYONE uses what they learned in school. The more you learn, the more you have at your fingertips to use when the time comes to use it.

BTW: Another way to identify a bad source is the use of absolutes, as there are few absolutes in the world. The good thing about this rule is that by stating it you immediately imply there must be exceptions. Hence I shall claim the absolute stated above as an exception to this rule. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: Hmmm, well MagiK, I'll agree with you on the experience thing, but if you ask me secondary school doesn't give you much valuable experience, just learning and making friends. It's only when you go further on and have more responsibilities to take care of that you get the true experience. But hey, I wouldn't have met some of my closest friends if I didn't go. Hey Galadria, I'm close to that, if I follow the path to my chosen carrer I think i'll have been in education for a minimum of 20 years, if I do my final training full-time rather than stretched out half-time, if I do half time it'll be more like 23 years,. I'm not going to tell you lot what I want to be because trust me, it'll bear the brunt of a lot of jokes. Damn job reputations!!!!!!!

Lemme guess Proctologist or Animal Husbandry?[/QUOTE]Well, it's neither of them, I'll tell everyone... [DRAMATIC PAUSE, FOLLOWED BY THUNDER]
A.. Lawyer!

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: Binky's right... but if it's for our own benefit, and it is there are as a help, not a restricting force on us rambunctious youths, why are teachers allowed such power over us?? And why do they keep saying we should act like grown ups, when half of the time, they are obviously wrong/mistaken, and think of us and treat us like children.... oh the strange people that are teachers (no offence to any teachers here, and I'm on about English teachers here, I wouldn't know about anywhere else), maybe all teachers in England are having a permanent mental breakdown.

Wow, if you think teachers have power over you now you should have been around 30 years ago...sheesh. As for why are children treated like children? After witnessing the apalling behavior of the kids in who attend school with my kids...Im surprised they don't allow the teachers to use their discretion in just removign some of them from society...permanently. Respect must be earned, you don't get it just because you manage to breathe. Ive found that in almost every case, if you act responsibly and in a mature manner, you will gradually earn that respect and be treated like an adult....but it takes time and work.[/QUOTE]That's all fine, and I agree, some do act like children, and they should be treated that way if that's how they're going to be, but teachers all seem to tar children with the same brush.

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

I'd also like to say that I agree 100% with you Aelia bou the knowledge being power, I strive to attain new knowledge whenever I can, and it's an extremely useful tool.

And MagiK, again, I agree 100% with what you said about history being vital, and plus, it's one of my favourite subjects.

[Sir Michael]

Talthyr - That's good, be a lawyer. Society needs people like you to make fun of and kick around. Just remember, YOU'LL be the one laughing all the way to the bank.

I think that it is difficult for teachers NOT to categorize their students and treat them all the same, especially at first. A typical HS teacher is responsible for 150+ (a teacher I observed last year had 192!) students for an hour a day. It's hard enough just learning all the names, much less how to treat everyone as an individual.

Eventually, the better teachers get to know their students individually, and show them respect and treat them as adults, which pays off in spades as far as creating an effective learning environment goes.

[Black Knight]

Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: A.. Lawyer!

Really? Where are you going? My Brother is going to The Ohio State University and is Graduating this year with his lawyer degree.

BK

[jabidas]

Not to sound insulting guys but education in America sounds like it really sucks.

I do subjects like Applied maths (yes as in separate to maths) and Physics and Im damned if i can see how they dont apply to the real world. I dont want to use them after school but definatly I can see their usefullness.

Originally posted by Nydlari: [QBHow about algebra? Geez this is a CRPG board, do I really need to detail all the power applied algebra gives to a CRPG power player? BTW: Another way to identify a bad source is the use of absolutes, as there are few absolutes in the world. The good thing about this rule is that by stating it you immediately imply there must be exceptions. Hence I shall claim the absolute stated above as an exception to this rule. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QB]

I agree about the absolutes, I try in all my posts to express when I am generalizing and when not, because in only a very few cases do absolutes exist in real life [img]smile.gif[/img] Its not all black and white, there really is a grey area [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by jabidas: Not to sound insulting guys but education in America sounds like it really sucks. I do subjects like Applied maths (yes as in separate to maths) and Physics and Im damned if i can see how they dont apply to the real world. I dont want to use them after school but definatly I can see their usefullness.

It is true that American public education is hurting right now, but I don't think it is because of bad teachers so much as they have forgotten to teach what should be taught in school and have instead focused more on multi-cultualism, self esteem and the feel good philosopy rather than reading, mathamatics, english, history and the sciences. I think getting back to the basics would be a fine way to start fixing things.

Someone posted about not liking the DeVry grads, I think I know what he is talking about, these are people who learned a set of facts but never learned the importance of learning to think criticly and to reason and to self start. Balanced education is key here. I work with some of those DeVry types who can't think their way out of a paper bag.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Sir Michael: Talthyr - That's good, be a lawyer. Society needs people like you to make fun of and kick around. Just remember, YOU'LL be the one laughing all the way to the bank.

Not all lawyers make a decent living, I must stress that point! I know so many kids who say right off they want to be a doctor or a lawyer for the money. Well, don't put yourself through the torture of THAT schooling and interning if you don't REALLY want to do the job out of plain interest or desire to do something good/constructive/altruistic with your life! I know lawyers who struggle to make their rent payments but love their work and get great satisfaction from helping people (one I know is a lawyer for immigration cases and international law) and there are doctors out there who don't make a whopping huge check but are satisfied with the good they can do for their fellow man.. so, my point? Don't go to school JUST to get a high paying job... you may find you don't like it. But on the other hand, you might find one that is richly rewarding in other ways... it's all about your personal goals and satisfaction in the end.

CB

[ 03-29-2002, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]