02-29-2004, 07:44 PM | #51 |
Baaz Draconian
Join Date: June 17, 2002
Location: NY
Age: 37
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Sorry about the Air Force mistake. My little error. Bit of bad information from the subject I'd read, or maybe I made an assumption, the piece on the subject I'd read I read 3 years ago...
Anyway, Night Stalker, we speak to a brick wall. You've got Wellard's style, condescension, arrogance and ad hominem (build the wall high) the repeat disassembly of Moore's responses, the board's responses, and attempted defenses elsewhere falling on deaf ears (build that wall THICK! Those cannon balls hurt and are shot with a LOT of powder behind them!) and finally, the stonewallery of not actually arguing our arguments, like Moore himself, this I analogize to making the wall stretch forever (if they can't get around, they can't get through!)... We can't make people listen to reason. We can't make soundness spread. That sort of thing is only built into authoritarian systems, which fall apart quite thankfully. I believe that certain liberties enhance security as a whole. The second ammendment, stringently applied, creates a system where individuals are not directly dependant upon others for security, and are thus secure themselves. Together, well-minded citizens are armed. They can do good together as needed. A good neighborhood system.
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02-29-2004, 08:40 PM | #52 |
Lord Ao
Join Date: June 24, 2002
Location: Nevernever Land
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Well, Oblivion .... Wellard, Dav, Barry, Groj, and Yorick (and Djinn and Heirophant too)are decent chaps. Don't be too hard on them. Some of them can be downright bullheadded sometimes, but so can I. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
They just happen to be clinging to their guru (as are we) for fear that if their guru is wrong, then they might be as well (and we are doing the same in a sense). It is strongly embedded into Western culture the need to be right. So while we find it frustrating that they can't see the obvious deceptions that Mr Moore is laying, they feel the same that we can't recognize the obvious bias and viscious lies that the likes of Mr Harding put forthe. Sorry guys to talk about you in the 3rd person. EDIT: I wanted to add that I am not trivializing your points of view by stating that you are clining to a guru, it's just an extended metaphore for demonstration purposes only. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Cheers all [img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img] [ 03-02-2004, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Night Stalker ]
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[url]\"http://www.duryea.org/pinky/gurkin.wav\" target=\"_blank\">AYPWIP?</a> .... <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[1ponder]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/1ponder.gif\" /> <br />\"I think so Brain, but isn\'t a cucumber that small called a gherkin?\"<br /><br />Shut UP! Pinky! |
03-01-2004, 02:09 AM | #53 | |
Lord Ao
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Quote:
Examples of the extension of politics through other means .... Korean "Conflict" 50-54 Five Army Attempted Invasion of Israel 67' Israel's annexation of Gaza and the West Bank Vietnam 62-72 Iran/Iraq War 80-90 China's invasion of Tibet Chechnia Somalia Bosnia Kosovo Iraqi invasion of Kuwait Subsequent World Smackdown of Iraq Iraq take II (I refuse to call it part II as it is just a continuation of a prior action ....... 12 years later [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) France's friskyness in Vietnam (they were there before we were!) France's firskiness in Congo Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan US smackdown of the Taliban al Qaida's current jihad with all of Western Civilization PLO actions in Israel Israeli responses to PLO actions IRA mischief in Ireland Sudan South and Central American InterCartel warfare US "War on Drugs" aka Central and South America Brits in the Faulklins Pol Pot in Laos The current Haitian uprising The almost quarterly South American Coups The Cold War Do I really need to go on? They may not be the style of warfare as that that ravaged Europe in the earlier part of last century, but it still is war extending politics.
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[url]\"http://www.duryea.org/pinky/gurkin.wav\" target=\"_blank\">AYPWIP?</a> .... <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[1ponder]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/1ponder.gif\" /> <br />\"I think so Brain, but isn\'t a cucumber that small called a gherkin?\"<br /><br />Shut UP! Pinky! |
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03-01-2004, 04:11 AM | #54 | |
Takhisis Follower
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Quote:
The points I would like to see your replies on NS are these : 1) Is this so called potential for popular revolution that the 2nd amendment provides truly keeping the "goverment honest" in your opinion? Do you honestly envision circumstances in todays advanced democracy (ie government is by the people for the people) that could precipitate said revolution? 2) If it were remotely possible for a dictator to seize power from the 2 party system, presumably with the backing of the US military, how effective a revolution could be staged? 3) Do your answers for the first 2 questions support that the 2nd amendment is both functional and relevant in todays 2 party democracy? If not, then what other argument can you mount for its retention (purpose please, and try to steer clear of the "cold dead hands" rhetoric) 3) What do you think of the contention that day to day fear of others and external potentials for violence have escalated in America? Has that happened to a greater extent in the US than in any countries that you may have visited (please be prepared to discuss with examples from civilised democracies - Haiti and Burma etc would not be relevant comparisons)? 4) You have mentioned that you don't feel safer with "all dem guns" - what would make you feel safer? More locks? More guns? Compulsory NRA membership? No Micheal Moore? The $1000 bullet? Feel free to add your own thoughts on what would make you feel safer. Oh - btw - that was one huge goddam missile in that lobby .
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03-01-2004, 05:43 AM | #55 |
Jack Burton
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From my understanding the central tenet of Bowling for Columbine is that one of the causes of the incredibly high level of deaths caused by guns in the US is the pervading climate of paranoia and fear.
What I don't understand is why Moore felt the need to investigate it through a documentary. Why not just lurk on IW for a couple of weeks.
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03-01-2004, 05:54 AM | #56 |
Baaz Draconian
Join Date: June 17, 2002
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I'm not sure he even knows about this place Donut...
And Night Stalker, I'll be hard on anyone who has the nerve to call me a liar when they know damn well I'm not. Such a cornershot in a debate of this sort is unacceptable.
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03-01-2004, 06:41 AM | #57 | |
Takhisis Follower
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Quote:
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Davros was right - just ask JD |
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03-01-2004, 07:46 AM | #58 | |
White Dragon
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[img]\"http://img1.ranchoweb.com/images/sproutman/certwist.gif\" alt=\" - \" /><br /><br /><i>\"And the angels all pallid and wan,<br />Uprising, unveiling, affirm,<br />That the play is the tragedy, man,<br />And its hero the Conquerer Worm.\"</i><br /> - Edgar Allan Poe |
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03-01-2004, 08:07 AM | #59 | |
Jack Burton
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Quote:
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03-01-2004, 08:16 AM | #60 | |
White Dragon
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Quote:
And Donut, I'm afraid I can't take the credit - that ones a Pratchett joke shamelessly lifted. But its a classic nonetheless... [ 03-01-2004, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: Barry the Sprout ]
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[img]\"http://img1.ranchoweb.com/images/sproutman/certwist.gif\" alt=\" - \" /><br /><br /><i>\"And the angels all pallid and wan,<br />Uprising, unveiling, affirm,<br />That the play is the tragedy, man,<br />And its hero the Conquerer Worm.\"</i><br /> - Edgar Allan Poe |
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