4 students sued by RIAA over music sites

[Arledrian]

Originally posted by Yorick: Chicane and Radioheads offerings, are complete works.

I'll say [img]smile.gif[/img] Chicane is my favourite group these days.

I do think the teens deserve some form of punishment, but in all honesty, I wouldn't wish anybody on earth a fine of that amount.

I personally don't download mp3s. I know several people, including my own brother in law, who are trying as hard as they possibly can to earn a record deal. I feel that if someone were to record their songs and plaster them all over the internet, they'd really be kicking these hard-working artists into the ground by dashing their hopes of making it big. Nobody deserves to have their work stolen - it's like running out of the Louvre with the Mona Lisa under your arm - you just don't do it.

I actually feel good when I go out and buy some vinyl or CDs - I know that whoever put the effort into creating these records is actually getting what they deserve. I don't begrudge them a measly few dollars. I love music. It's worth every cent.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Arledrian: Quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Chicane and Radioheads offerings, are complete works.

I'll say [img]smile.gif[/img] Chicane is my favourite group these days.
[/QUOTE]Mine too. Pure genius. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Arledrian]

Originally posted by Yorick: Mine too. Pure genius. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Have you heard of their track 'Lost You Somewhere' Hugh? If not, I hope you find the time to look out for it. I have it on 12'' and played it just yesterday - it's magic [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Rataxes]

On what authority do you speak for Mr. Everyman? What studies are you presenting to justify your opinion? If you have none, then speak for yourself. YOU assess albums on a song-by-song basis. 'People' do many different things. I DO know many people who look at the album as a whole. More importantly, artists and producers do. Countless albums, from the Wall and Sgt Peppers (two of the most influential albums to date) to more recent albums such as Chicane and Radioheads offerings, are complete works. You also persist in the trend from posters here, in ignoring every other genre outside pop music. Music is more than pop.

Experience is just about all of my friends, and an additional 200 people (approx) on 10 different music fan forums. Like I said earlier, some of them do care about the full album experience, but what's being discussed the most is individual songs.

If all that mattered for most music fans and artists, was the whole album, then why are whole albums never played in their entity live? Why are we seeing more and more professional reviews rating albums song by song if regular people only care about the full album experience? Why do top lists for individual songs even exist?

What genre is Pop? Pop is whatever's popular at the moment. Beatles was pop in the sixties, jazz was pop in the thirties. If your definition of Pop is Pink and Linkin Park, then I'm definitely not just talking about that. Granted I do not listen much to jazz, classical, trance or death metal, but very little of what I listen to often makes it to the top lists. In fact, the most interesting music fan communities revolve around bands that aren't mainstream, as they generally attract a more mature and closed community.

[Rataxes]

This is complete and utter faleshood. Total bollocks. Go check your information Rataxes.

Why isn't that a bloody great argument if I ever saw one! [img]smile.gif[/img] Care to dig up some proof of your own, showing that CD sales took a dramatic hit the year that Internet piracy became common? Or that it every year since that steadily has decreased in a far quicker rate than it did before the mp3 format was invented?

[ 04-13-2003, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[andrewas]

Not suprisingly , IFPI claim that piracy is the biggest threat the the music industry ever and that it is solely responsible for the entire drop in music sales. RIAA site isnt responding to me, but I suspect they make much the same claims.

http://www.ifpi.org/

These people quote Jupiter Media Metrix as saying there is no noticible impact:

http://www.rediff.com/search/2002/sep/09mp3.htm

and :

http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/17600.html

Are quoting JMM research indicating a sales boost due to P2P.

Back from the days of napster:

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,36961,00.html

Note the continuing claim - a substantial proportion of P2P users download music to help them decide what to buy, and a lot of people to get music that isnt available.

[Rataxes]

I personally don't download mp3s. I know several people, including my own brother in law, who are trying as hard as they possibly can to earn a record deal. I feel that if someone were to record their songs and plaster them all over the internet, they'd really be kicking these hard-working artists into the ground by dashing their hopes of making it big. Nobody deserves to have their work stolen - it's like running out of the Louvre with the Mona Lisa under your arm - you just don't do it.

Here we go again about inmaterial vs material loss. Piracy doesn't compare very well at all with it, but even stealing a poster copy made of paper would be a more fair comparison.

I also know a few people who are recording their own songs, one personally, and the rest on the music communities. My cousin once had a rap group together with some friends´. What little interest their music got (they weren't terribly good) was garnered on the Internet. They actually did make an LP and sold a few hundred copies, almost entirely due to the interest that had grown for their music on the Internet I dare say. How else would they have reached out? There are other ways I know, but whatever method garners the most interest in the artist and his music, is unargubly the best one, right? Nowhere does interest grow and spread as easily, fast and free as on the Net.

Wouldn't you agree that public interest is just about the most valuable thing an artist can get? I don't know about you, but if I had created some music of my own, I'd much rather prefer to have a generated an interest in my music on the net, even if no one of them cares enough to buy my record, than to have absolutely zero interest. Nowhere is it easier to reach out to people with your music than on the Internet, authorized or not.

I actually feel good when I go out and buy some vinyl or CDs - I know that whoever put the effort into creating these records is actually getting what they deserve. I don't begrudge them a measly few dollars. I love music. It's worth every cent.

I feel good when I buy a CD as well, knowing that I to 100% support the artist whose work I'm willing to invest money in. If I had money to spare, I wouldn't have any problems spending 20$ as soon as I heard a cool new song, but the fact is that I don't have the money to spare. With money to spare I mean the sort of quantaties you'd have to have in order to not care much if you spend twentyfive bucks on a crap record based on one good single. I would've been very reluctant to spend the 300-400$ I've to this date invested in artists, if I didn't fully support the artists behind the music. The fact is that that support would never have been established without Internet piracy, and the music industry and artists would never have seen a dime of those hundreds of dollars.

[ 04-13-2003, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Rataxes: [QBWhat genre is Pop? Pop is whatever's popular at the moment. Beatles was pop in the sixties, jazz was pop in the thirties. If your definition of Pop is Pink and Linkin Park, then I'm definitely not just talking about that. Granted I do not listen much to jazz, classical, trance or death metal, but very little of what I listen to often makes it to the top lists. In fact, the most interesting music fan communities revolve around bands that aren't mainstream, as they generally attract a more mature and closed community.[/QB]

I already defined pop as music similar to the style of top 40 music. "Popular"

[ 04-13-2003, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Rataxes: [QB] I also know a few people who are recording their own songs, one personally, and the rest on the music communities. My cousin once had a rap group together with some friends´. What little interest their music got (they weren't terribly good) was garnered on the Internet. They actually did make an LP and sold a few hundred copies, almost entirely due to the interest that had grown for their music on the Internet I dare say. How else would they have reached out? There are other ways I know, but whatever method garners the most interest in the artist and his music, is unargubly the best one, right? Nowhere does interest grow and spread as easily, fast and free as on the Net.

There is an important word you seem to be ignoring. CHOICE. If an artist CHOOSES to give their music away online, it's not theft. If you take it, or pass it on, it's theft.

I have given my music out online freely. Ask around here. Plenty have my songs and some have full albus that I certainly don't want money for.

But do I support file sharing and mp3 trading? Definitely not. The difference is I have CHOSEN, your friends have CHOSEN, to follow a course of action.

In Deathkillers case, I hardly expect him to personally know the 80,000 artists he's stolen material from.

Now, take my own example. Just say everyone I gave my songs out to, shares my music with their friends, who share it with their friends.

"Oh, we can't buy the CD, so it's cool"
Why can't you buy a CD?
1.I have no money to mass produce a CD.
2.The record industry is rock bottom and hardly signing anyone in this environment.

So if everyone who ever heard my music shared my songs, the album I've created the songs to work into becomes meaningless, and I don't make any revenue at all, to compensate for the time and financial investment it takes to create the songs.

It's cyclic. No demand, no product, no product, no demand.

Now, if I'm fine with that, that's my choice. However, I know many musicians who would, and are devasted by these things.

How well is Anastasia doing? She lost untold amounts of single and album sales due to massive amounts of mp3 downloads of her hit. Her career is down the toilet. She is a phenomenal singer, and I challenge anyone to suggest that her career is bad because her product - singing and songs - are crap. She's an incredible singer and the songs are/were very strong.

No money made, no further investment from the company.

The only reason I can keep making my own music is because I'm able to make a record by myself. If I was a singer/songwriter who couldn't produce, engineer or play a number of instruments, I'd be screwed. Unable to realise my artistic vision, and unable to create music I love.

[ 04-13-2003, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Rataxes: Wouldn't you agree that public interest is just about the most valuable thing an artist can get? I don't know about you, but if I had created some music of my own, I'd much rather prefer to have a generated an interest in my music on the net, even if no one of them cares enough to buy my record, than to have absolutely zero interest. Nowhere is it easier to reach out to people with your music than on the Internet, authorized or not.

Actually radio and television are the easiest ways to reach out to large numbers of people.

Secondly, public interest is the best thing an artist can get?? Er no.. the ability to create a work is the best thing an artist can get. mp3 sharing will rob recording artists and producers, the ability to realise their artistic vision.

More and more brilliant and gifted composer/producers are moving into advertising, where they create works of utter beauty, crammed into 30 seconds, and rejected en-masse by advertising companies.

I'm serious. I have heard music that is incredible that will never see hte light of day, because it's a thirty second rejected ad. Yet the gifted protege HAS to do this if they want to make serious money off their craft.

Think of all the albums and songs that MIGHT be made by such genius'. You will never hear them. Music fans share mp3s? Hardly.