What is America?

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Firestormalpha: (Some may think we won that war by pure luck, I say it's cuz Britains commanders didn't take us seriously in time.)

...Or perhaps because waging a war at the other side of the Atlantic Ocean was costly and impractical, especially in those days. In fact, the British *did* win most of the battles, but to subdue an entire continent from such a huge distance from its own shores was "as wild an idea as ever controverted common sense", to quote the Adjutant-General in that period. They probably could have held the American colonies under their control for a few years longer, but realized it wasn't worth the effort, due to the costs and the not too encouraging prospects of most likely having to keep it under strict military control for decades to come, while rebel sentiments among the American colonists were still on the rise.

Besides, Britain had other problems to deal with, like massive, bloody anti-Catholic riots in London which had costed at least 700 (!) people their lives, or the continuously bad relationships with France in those days, already having waged war against the French twice within the last 80 years and with another one yet to come.

[ 11-17-2003, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Grojlach: quote: Originally posted by Firestormalpha: (Some may think we won that war by pure luck, I say it's cuz Britains commanders didn't take us seriously in time.)

...Or perhaps because waging a war at the other side of the Atlantic Ocean was costly and impractical, especially in those days. In fact, the British *did* win most of the battles, but to subdue an entire continent from such a huge distance from its own shores was "as wild an idea as ever controverted common sense", to quote the Adjutant-General in that period. They probably could have held the American colonies under their control for a few years longer, but realized it wasn't worth the effort, due to the costs and the not too encouraging prospects of most likely having to keep it under strict military control for decades to come, while rebel sentiments among the American colonists were still on the rise.

Besides, Britain had other problems to deal with, like massive, bloody anti-Catholic riots in London which had costed at least 700 (!) people their lives, or the continuously bad relationships with France in those days, already having waged war against the French twice within the last 80 years and with another one yet to come. [/QUOTE]Gandhi once wrote: "One lakh of Englishmen cannot keep under subjection thirty crores of human beings merely by brute force."

* 1 lakh = 100 000
** 1 crore = 10 million

This was the reason why the British had to leave India and it also applies to the US more than 150 years earlier.

[ 11-17-2003, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Faceman: Gandhi once wrote: "One lakh of Englishmen cannot keep under subjection thirty crores of human beings merely by brute force." * 1 lakh = 100 000 ** 1 crore = 10 million This was the reason why the British had to leave India and it also applies to the US more than 150 years earlier.

True... With the difference of course that in the case of the US, a very large part of the population was still loyal to the British king in those days. But it was definitely one of the major practical problems the British had to deal with.

[Faceman]

Okay, that does it!
I feel a strong urge to play "Colonization" once again
*off to find my old disks*

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Faceman: Okay, that does it! I feel a strong urge to play "Colonization" once again *off to find my old disks*

I loved that game... Pity it crashed a lot, especially whenever a new founding father was added to the gallery. For some reason, the Windows 95 update was never completely bugfree.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Grojlach: quote: Originally posted by Firestormalpha: (Some may think we won that war by pure luck, I say it's cuz Britains commanders didn't take us seriously in time.)

...Or perhaps because waging a war at the other side of the Atlantic Ocean was costly and impractical, especially in those days. In fact, the British *did* win most of the battles, but to subdue an entire continent from such a huge distance from its own shores was "as wild an idea as ever controverted common sense", to quote the Adjutant-General in that period. They probably could have held the American colonies under their control for a few years longer, but realized it wasn't worth the effort, due to the costs and the not too encouraging prospects of most likely having to keep it under strict military control for decades to come, while rebel sentiments among the American colonists were still on the rise.

Besides, Britain had other problems to deal with, like massive, bloody anti-Catholic riots in London which had costed at least 700 (!) people their lives, or the continuously bad relationships with France in those days, already having waged war against the French twice within the last 80 years and with another one yet to come. [/QUOTE]Maybe it also had something to do with facing true guerilla warfare for the first time in history. At least until the French decided to arrive, which was after it looked like we'd win on our own anyway.

[Timber Loftis]

Some random opinions on America:

1. It's history is grand. The fact it actually made it into existence defied all probabilities. The group of really wonkish wealthy landowners who guided the country to split from England had some very fantastic ideals.

2. It is the model of a constitutional democracy. While there are many variations on the theme, it was here that it was done, done first, done well, and we honor that tradition by keeping the same document unchanged, proving (with a lot of argument about it) that a document from 200 years ago contains the convential wisdom to run this country for all time. We preserve that document under glass in a vacuum container for a reason, and that is that it is one of the milestones of human evolution of thought.

3. No matter how you may dislike the current administration, American *pop* culture, the Hollywood bling-bling, or all the BS, you can still come here a poor immigrant and become a very powerful person. Someone mentioned Arnie having no business running CA. I wholeheartedly disagree. He is exactly what America is about, despite his personal flaws.

4. In the last 50 years, America has become very complicated to analyze. In many many senses, it embarrasses me. However, it has held true to George Washington's directive that it be a country of neither permanent allies or permanent enemies, always striving to get the best for itself and its people in foreign relations, and beholden to no one at the end of the day.

5. America is a conundrum at base, one based on multiple other conundrums. We are all free, meaning the thing which links us is that nothing links us. Our totem is one of unity through individuality. We strive for liberty and equality, and common sense dictates you can't have both. The balance of power from one to the other makes us seem waffley at times, but in truth there is a dialectic our country has with itself on the issue throughout history. And, here is some of the greatest beauty of America for me, the very complicated self-analysis and dialectical arrangement.

6. America is one heck of a piece of real estate. You can travel the globe and have a hard time finding one unified country with so many diverse lands all run basically the same way. In this respect, we simply lucked out.

7. Americans are proud, damnit, though we may not know why. We have a strong sense of "us" vs. "them" even though the "us" is made up of a mutt-bred hodgepodge of peoples and colors from everywhere, including (literally) Timbuktu. It really is the melting pot experiment, for all its good and ill. Our amazing diversity is our greatest strength as well as our greatest weakness.

[ 11-17-2003, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: and history both strange and wonderful.

If just a little short [/QUOTE]*snort* I don't think 'length' affects performance, though... [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img]

edit...ROTFL...couldn't decide btw the above and a 'history envy' comment... ROTFL..

[ 11-17-2003, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[Timber Loftis]

*Mini-mod Mode*
Cloudy, I remind you this is a FAMILY forum. [img]graemlins/whackya.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

True that length may not affect performance, but the jury's still out on whether America will finish too soon.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: quote: Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: and history both strange and wonderful.

If just a little short [/QUOTE]*snort* I don't think 'length' affects performance, though... [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img]

edit...ROTFL...couldn't decide btw the above and a 'history envy' comment... ROTFL.. [/QUOTE]You chose the right one Cloudy, very funny!! I'm lost for words!!