Bringing Back the draft?

[Sir Taliesin]

Interesting arguments all! Chewwie, I think one, under the Rangel proposal will have a choice of joining the Military or serving in some other capacity. I think both myself and Magik brought up the Peace Corp. Another option could be the America's Corp (isn't that the name of the group that Clinton Started back in the early '90's. They stay in the states and help communities around the nation with civic programs and projects. I know they were active here in Knoxville for a while. If one one doesn't want to serve in the military, then one can serve else where. There is always a need somewhere in the world. Rangel isn't proposing a true military draft such as the Swiss have. I'm not sure how you can object to that.

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by MagiK: [QB I guess it is hard for me to see and understand when others don't want to contribute in direct service if for just a short time. [/QB]

I agree totally with you on this one! I don't think two years is too much to ask forone to serve one's country either in the Military or in some other capacity.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: Interesting arguments all! Chewwie, I think one, under the Rangel proposal will have a choice of joining the Military or serving in some other capacity. I think both myself and Magik brought up the Peace Corp. Another option could be the America's Corp (isn't that the name of the group that Clinton Started back in the early '90's. They stay in the states and help communities around the nation with civic programs and projects. I know they were active here in Knoxville for a while. If one one doesn't want to serve in the military, then one can serve else where. There is always a need somewhere in the world. Rangel isn't proposing a true military draft such as the Swiss have. I'm not sure how you can object to that.

I cannot disagree that choosing to serve others is a honorable and neccesary path in life.

The key word there is "choosing" Why do we have to sacrifice self-determination for service to society if we can have both?

[Nanobyte]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: so every citizen would have a personal stake in war and think long and hard about the costs of war before agreeing to it.

But what about the people who don't agree to it? I don't know, I have mixed feelings about the draft (even though I'm only 17), but I feel that you're accomplishing nothing if you force people not only to fight for their country (the pro), but also for their lives (the con). If you think about it, one person sent into war, that ends up being killed, could have been the next breakthrough scientist to find the cure for cancer.
I guess to sum it all up, I oppose the war, and I oppose the draft.

[ 01-03-2003, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: Nanobyte ]

[Blind_Prophet]

Originally posted by Nanobyte: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: so every citizen would have a personal stake in war and think long and hard about the costs of war before agreeing to it.

But what about the people who don't agree to it? I don't know, I have mixed feelings about the draft (even though I'm only 17), but I feel that you're accomplishing nothing if you force people not only to fight for their country (the pro), but also for their lives (the con). If you think about it, one person sent into war, that ends up being killed, could have been the next breakthrough scientist to find the cure for cancer.
I guess to sum it all up, I oppose the war, and I oppose the draft.[/QUOTE]I too am 17. I don't like the idea of them being able to run my life, and forcing me to do any kind of manditory service. Sure people might say but they force you to go to school true. Getting educated is something that i belive serves a purpose, I belive in education, but I don't belive in the cause that they would want me too fight for, Sure you can say but they have attacked and threated your country true. I think they should come up with different soultions to the problem then war.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: Glad to see you all responded! My personal feelings are that compulsory service, be it in the military, Peace Corp or whatever is a good thing. I have been in favor of it for years! To me, it's no different than going away to college. It's an unique experience that many people no longer have the opportunity to do. People might not be so quick to take their rights and freedoms for granted, if they recognize just how lucky they are to grow up in the US or any other free country for that matter. Hivetyrant, the draft is compulsive military service. Rangel is going to introduce a bill in Congress to force all young adults either to join the military or some other alternate service such as the Peace Corp.

Sir Taliesin,
While military service and or the Peace Corps are both noble and worthy, a compulsory service, except in times of national crisis (WW2 or the like) go against the VERY fabric of the Unitied States, remember the opening pargraph of the Constitution ..."the pursiut of happiness" and all that. What if a citizen's pursuit of happiness is not to join the the military or peace corps? Would we not then be taking away the very freedom and rights we want them to value? Iraq, Iran, and North Korea at the SAME time are less of a fight then Nazi Germany, Japan, or Italy by themselves were. The balance of military power, tactics, and techs are overwhelmingly on the side of the USA, so there is no national crisis at this time that would justify a draft. The only reason the USA couldn't take all three of the Axis of evil out at the same time is we don't have enough ammo on hand.

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by John D Harris: Sir Taliesin, While military service and or the Peace Corps are both noble and worthy, a compulsory service, except in times of national crisis (WW2 or the like) go against the VERY fabric of the Unitied States, remember the opening pargraph of the Constitution ..."the pursiut of happiness" and all that. What if a citizen's pursuit of happiness is not to join the the military or peace corps? Would we not then be taking away the very freedom and rights we want them to value? Iraq, Iran, and North Korea at the SAME time are less of a fight then Nazi Germany, Japan, or Italy by themselves were. The balance of military power, tactics, and techs are overwhelmingly on the side of the USA, so there is no national crisis at this time that would justify a draft. The only reason the USA couldn't take all three of the Axis of evil out at the same time is we don't have enough ammo on hand.

You have a good point, but what about a a small price for the freedom we enjoy. Was it not John Fitzgerald Kennedy of Camelot fame that said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Is two years of some sort of national service to much to ask? Either in the military or in some sort of civic program like the NRA of the Rosevelt era, in the 1930's.

One can drive through many parts of rural Tennessee and see many NRA and WPA projects that have stood the test of time. The football stadium that my 8 year daughter (just turned 8 yesterday) cheered at this year was a NRA project.
A program like that could be set up. Young people (both men and women) could learn a trade and save money for college. Rangel isn't proposing a military only draft, but a national service draft. At least that's the way I read it.

Of course, another institution in our country already requires their young people to participate in a two year mission. The Church of the Later Day Saints. Tennessee has a blue chip football prospect (Mapu) that just interrupted his colligate career to do his two years of missionary work.

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by MagiK: What you say is true too Djinn, however that is why I think the words "Peace Corps" and other governmental services are being possibly added to the list.

what difference does the label make? If i don't do boy scouts for two years i go to prison..

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: quote: Originally posted by John D Harris: Sir Taliesin, While military service and or the Peace Corps are both noble and worthy, a compulsory service, except in times of national crisis (WW2 or the like) go against the VERY fabric of the Unitied States, remember the opening pargraph of the Constitution ..."the pursiut of happiness" and all that. What if a citizen's pursuit of happiness is not to join the the military or peace corps? Would we not then be taking away the very freedom and rights we want them to value? Iraq, Iran, and North Korea at the SAME time are less of a fight then Nazi Germany, Japan, or Italy by themselves were. The balance of military power, tactics, and techs are overwhelmingly on the side of the USA, so there is no national crisis at this time that would justify a draft. The only reason the USA couldn't take all three of the Axis of evil out at the same time is we don't have enough ammo on hand.

You have a good point, but what about a a small price for the freedom we enjoy. Was it not John Fitzgerald Kennedy of Camelot fame that said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Is two years of some sort of national service to much to ask? Either in the military or in some sort of civic program like the NRA of the Rosevelt era, in the 1930's.

One can drive through many parts of rural Tennessee and see many NRA and WPA projects that have stood the test of time. The football stadium that my 8 year daughter (just turned 8 yesterday) cheered at this year was a NRA project.
A program like that could be set up. Young people (both men and women) could learn a trade and save money for college. Rangel isn't proposing a military only draft, but a national service draft. At least that's the way I read it.

Of course, another institution in our country already requires their young people to participate in a two year mission. The Church of the Later Day Saints. Tennessee has a blue chip football prospect (Mapu) that just interrupted his colligate career to do his two years of missionary work.[/QUOTE]Happy Birthday to your daughter!

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin:

You have a good point, but what about a a small price for the freedom we enjoy. Was it not John Fitzgerald Kennedy of Camelot fame that said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Is two years of some sort of national service to much to ask? Either in the military or in some sort of civic program like the NRA of the Rosevelt era, in the 1930's.

One can drive through many parts of rural Tennessee and see many NRA and WPA projects that have stood the test of time. The football stadium that my 8 year daughter (just turned 8 yesterday) cheered at this year was a NRA project.
A program like that could be set up. Young people (both men and women) could learn a trade and save money for college. Rangel isn't proposing a military only draft, but a national service draft. At least that's the way I read it.

Of course, another institution in our country already requires their young people to participate in a two year mission. The Church of the Later Day Saints. Tennessee has a blue chip football prospect (Mapu) that just interrupted his colligate career to do his two years of missionary work.[/QUOTE]
Sir Taliesin, Tell your daughter Happy birthday.

We have many projets here in Alabama that the WPA, CCC, or some other national program built. Alabama has one of the finest state park systems in the lower 48 because of the depression era programs.

The problem I have with a complusory service,in non national crisis, is that the freedoms that men and women like you that have served, fought, died, and killed others for would be curtailed. For me that would cheapen your service, and that is too high a price for me to ever pay. This country owes the ladies and gentlemen that voluntarily choose to serve a debt it can never repay. I for one would never want to see the "Gates to Valhalla" widened, those of you that have earned a place there deserve to be there.