Moore to shoot sequel to Fahrenheit 9/11

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Yorick: So you think anyone that doesn't vote republican is automatically eleitist? Even the poor black democrat voters in your own state? Wow.

No, Yorick, I never said anything remotely like that. What I have said all along - yet somehow just CAN'T seem to communicate to you - is that many of the voters from "Blue America" honostly believe they are smarter, wiser, more savvy and just general-all-around better than those from Red America. There have been a plethora of editorials printed calling the citizens of Red America every possible degenerative insult they could possibly think of and the basic sentiment expressed has been that we are too dumb to realize Bush is the worst thing to ever happen to America and that we can't figure any of this out for ourselves...so we should just sit back quietly and let our more enlightned Blue Brethren do our thinking for us.

This attitude IS OUT THERE, whether you are willing to recognize it or not. I disagree with the Blue America voters, but I have NOT insulted them in any shape, form or fashion. The ONLY label I have used has been "elitist" and this was a label the citizens of New York applied to themselves when quoted in the article from the New York Times I mentioned earlier.

This is not a false perception on my part, this is based on direct quotes listed in a newspaper article. I've never mentioned anything about the black Democrats from my state - I have only mentioned the ATTITUDE expressed by many members of Blue America (most of which were written or said by those living in New York, although some comments also came out of California).

But the fact that you would claim that I feel such a way only highlights the validity of my statements about the presence of the "elitist attitude".

Like I said before, YOU choose who you want to poll in New York and ASK them how they feel about the voters from Red America. Then report their responses back here. I will garuantee you the words "ignorant", "hick", "backwoods", "inbred", "stupid" and other such endearing adjectives will be in abundance - and those are the nicer things being said. I can't really print the others I expect you will hear.

Of course, that still leaves us with the question of whether you will actually consider those deragatory terms to be insulting or just an accurate description. Personally, I consider them to be very insulting and it does reflect the fact that people who use those terms honostly feel they are "better" (smarter, more savvy, more "enlightened", etc) and that IS an "elitist attitude" - at least in MY opinion. Obviously, you seem to disagree with this sentiment and I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.

Frankly, I'm tired of beating my head against this particular wall.

[krunchyfrogg]

Onions give me bad gas.

And my bad gas has about as much credibility as that website.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by krunchyfrogg: Onions give me bad gas. And my bad gas has about as much credibility as that website.

Well, to be fair, I believe the Onion Site is pretty equal in dishing out their particular brand of satire. I don't visit the site much myself, but I think they slam both sides of the fence pretty evenly from what I have seen on their site before. So I just take thier articles in the manner intended. It's all in good fun - but there is usually a nugget (or more) of truth in their satire too.

[krunchyfrogg]

Oh, I know it's "just for fun." The sad part is that some do not (insert pre-emptive "I'm not accusing anyone" here).

[The Hierophant]

Can someone fill me in on just what the hell is wrong with being elitist?

Some people are smart, graceful, beautiful, strong and articulate.
Some people are simple-minded, oafish, ugly, weak and easily duped.

Granted, these are subjective terms, but even given that, so what? Mammalian (and some insect)societies and their tiered class structures are based upon elitist principles! Who gives a s**t?

[ 11-24-2004, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Cerek: No, Yorick, I never said anything remotely like that. What I have said all along - yet somehow just CAN'T seem to communicate to you - is that many of the voters from "Blue America" honostly believe they are smarter, wiser, more savvy and just general-all-around better than those from Red America. There have been a plethora of editorials printed calling the citizens of Red America every possible degenerative insult they could possibly think of and the basic sentiment expressed has been that we are too dumb to realize Bush is the worst thing to ever happen to America and that we can't figure any of this out for ourselves...so we should just sit back quietly and let our more enlightned Blue Brethren do our thinking for us. This attitude IS OUT THERE, whether you are willing to recognize it or not. I disagree with the Blue America voters, but I have NOT insulted them in any shape, form or fashion. The ONLY label I have used has been "elitist" and this was a label the citizens of New York applied to themselves when quoted in the article from the New York Times I mentioned earlier. This is not a false perception on my part, this is based on direct quotes listed in a newspaper article. I've never mentioned anything about the black Democrats from my state - I have only mentioned the ATTITUDE expressed by many members of Blue America (most of which were written or said by those living in New York, although some comments also came out of California). But the fact that you would claim that I feel such a way only highlights the validity of my statements about the presence of the "elitist attitude". Like I said before, YOU choose who you want to poll in New York and ASK them how they feel about the voters from Red America. Then report their responses back here. I will garuantee you the words "ignorant", "hick", "backwoods", "inbred", "stupid" and other such endearing adjectives will be in abundance - and those are the nicer things being said. I can't really print the others I expect you will hear. Of course, that still leaves us with the question of whether you will actually consider those deragatory terms to be insulting or just an accurate description. Personally, I consider them to be very insulting and it does reflect the fact that people who use those terms honostly feel they are "better" (smarter, more savvy, more "enlightened", etc) and that IS an "elitist attitude" - at least in MY opinion. Obviously, you seem to disagree with this sentiment and I guess we'll just have to leave it at that. Frankly, I'm tired of beating my head against this particular wall.

As a person who lives and works in a Blue state I totally disagree with you.

I believe this is a media perpetuated misconception of people in "blue states". (Whatever that is anyway)

[ 11-25-2004, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Cerek]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: Can someone fill me in on just what the hell is wrong with being elitist? Some people are smart, graceful, beautiful, strong and articulate. Some people are simple-minded, oafish, ugly, weak and easily duped. Granted, these are subjective terms, but even given that, so what? Mammalian (and some insect)societies and their tiered class structures are based upon elitist principles! Who gives a s**t?

Being from the South, I don't see any difference between being an "elitist" and being "a$$hole".

Yes, some people are smart, graceful, beautiful and articulate
Others are simple-minded, oafish, ugly, and weak.

But all of these adjective apply on an individual basis, NOT to an entire geographic region. And the negative adjectives do not apply JUST because someone disagrees with you.

I disagree with the voters that supported Kerry, but I have not said any remarks about their personal attributes - other than to say that many of them were exhibiting an "elitist attitude" (an assertion easily supported by a plethora of insulting commentaries and editorials that have been printed in the weeks following the election). And even though I disagree with them, I still respect their views and their right to disagree with me.

I have no tolerance for those who can not respect opposing viewpoints and I especially have no tolerance for those who think they are "better" than those with an opposing viewpoint.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Yorick: As a person who lives and works in a Blue state I totally disagree with you. I believe this is a media perpetuated misconception of people in "blue states". (Whatever that is anyway).

Perhaps you are right, my friend. I certainly don't believe ALL citizens of New York state exhibit this "elitist attitude" and maybe it is just the result of the numerous media commentaries and editorials that were printed following the election. I would like to think that this attitude is NOT reflective of the average NYC citizen. But since you are a resident of a Blue State, you can check out the pervaseviness of this attitude (or lack thereof) yourself.

Like I said before, choose any group of citizens you prefer when you return home and ask them thier opinion of the people living in the Red States and see what they say, then post their remarks here as a rebuttal to the supposed "elitist attitude".

I will actually be quite pleased to be proven wrong in this case.

[Yorick]

Well how's this:
NEW YORK ELECTION RESULTS:

Kerry - 3,998,196......58%
Bush - 2,798,220......40%
Nader - 102,271.........2%
Badnarik - 12,305.......0%
Calero - 2,714

So, is 2.8 million New Yorkers enough to sway your opinion? 40% of people that voted?

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Cerek: Being from the South, I don't see any difference between being an "elitist" and being "a$$hole". Yes, some people are smart, graceful, beautiful and articulate Others are simple-minded, oafish, ugly, and weak. But all of these adjective apply on an individual basis, NOT to an entire geographic region. And the negative adjectives do not apply JUST because someone disagrees with you. I disagree with the voters that supported Kerry, but I have not said any remarks about their personal attributes - other than to say that many of them were exhibiting an "elitist attitude" (an assertion easily supported by a plethora of insulting commentaries and editorials that have been printed in the weeks following the election). And even though I disagree with them, I still respect their views and their right to disagree with me. I have no tolerance for those who can not respect opposing viewpoints and I especially have no tolerance for those who think they are "better" than those with an opposing viewpoint.

Fair enough.