R.A. Salvatore is the man!!!!!!!

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by Jerr Conner: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Reread the beginning of (IIRC) silent blade, the part where Jarlaxle orders his leiutenents to psionic/delayed blast fireball/chop up a random person(I forget if the person had any importance or if he was truly a random victim) and then kick them out into a crowded city street, when the psionic power ended the person exploded into a mass of jellied flesh, and then the fireball went off taking out many innocent bystanders, how can you try to justify that he's not totally evil, because he made friends with an evil ASSASSIN, Artemis makes his living by killing for money, and he's the best there is at what he does (I don't count Drizzt or Danica because they don't kill for $$), regardless of what he may be like as "a person" he's evil, doesn't care about the harm he does or the widows he leaves behind, he does his job and continues without a second thought, his fears and doubts from the books that feature him prominently are a selfish paranoia, that one day soon he won't be the best and he'll learn it when the dagger slides out of his back.

I'll reread, but could you kindly provide the chapter?

Let's just discuss a little reality -- even on the fantastical level. Doesn't Drizzt put six coins on the back of each hand and throw them up in the air, only to catch all 12 coins? Or was it more? Doesn't Drizzt parry all 5 of Jarlaxle's magic daggers while simultaneously fighting leiutenants and/or Yochlol? Oh, wait, here's a good one -- Drizzt's blind Ranger mentor shooting things with the help of his pet owl; almost as classically cheesy as Johnny Depp in Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Wait, the coolest -- when Guenhwyvar was about to fall in the pool of acid and Drizzt saved it by catching it on his booted foot.

I was under the impression that elves are faster than humans, so I assumed that Drizzt, being faster than even a normal elf, would be able to catch that many coins. I mean, there's really no scientific way of proving this, as there's no elves, so we'd have to suspend our disbelief (Which we do for most Fantasy Novels anyway).

I don't think Drizzt actually fought a Yochlol, at least I haven't seen him do as such as far as I've read (I'm up to Spine of the World). Also, I can imagine him dodging blows as he parries Jarlaxle's daggers. </font>[/QUOTE]it might have been servant of the shard, it's been a while since I've read them, and they weren't good enough to make me want to rereead them.

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Tsk, tsk, I think we're generating waaaay more philosophical and ethical debate than any Salvatore book is worth. Let's just discuss a little reality -- even on the fantastical level. Doesn't Drizzt put six coins on the back of each hand and throw them up in the air, only to catch all 12 coins? Or was it more? Doesn't Drizzt parry all 5 of Jarlaxle's magic daggers while simultaneously fighting leiutenants and/or Yochlol? Oh, wait, here's a good one -- Drizzt's blind Ranger mentor shooting things with the help of his pet owl; almost as classically cheesy as Johnny Depp in Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Wait, the coolest -- when Guenhwyvar was about to fall in the pool of acid and Drizzt saved it by catching it on his booted foot. After the coolness of the "back to back" fighting idea wore off, I began to suspect Salvatore's grasp of "physical reality" in his work. Forget ethics and morals -- let's just try to get past basic laws of physics like gravity.

unfortunately Timber I have to disagree with you, catching the coins, he's got a 20 Dex (per 2nd ed Heroes Lorebook I have no idea what his 3e stats are), that's a person who would leave an olympic level gymnast looking like a paraplegic monkey trying to mate with a football

parrying the daggers, his sword is a defender +5 (he can use the +5 for his AC or the swords attack/damage bonus) if he switched it to +5 AC bonus he would be at a -8 AC and in all likelyhood the dagger missed on a straight die roll, this was accounted for by the sword "miraculously" deflecting them (see my point about his superhuman dex above)

Mooshie, I never liked, I felt the whole or that book from the point where he met the ranger and got whomped in a fight until the end of the book was horribly forced, here's a character who is at least 20th level as a fighter, spent decades being the best warrior under Faerun, and he gets beaten by a cliche', the writing was unrealistic, made me sick and ruined my enjoyment of that book (that's why Drizzt is 18th lvl, his exp was transferred directly into his ranger class instead of starting over (per the rules), and rangers have a higher exp cost than fighters)

Guenhwyver statue falling, see the note about the coins.

[ 03-02-2004, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

[Jerr Conner]

it might have been servant of the shard, it's been a while since I've read them, and they weren't good enough to make me want to rereead them.

I'll just take your word on it, though if it is Servant of the Shard, Crenshinibon tends to do that to people.

I think, though, that with Zaknafien, he did admit he wasn't brave enough to leave Menzoberanzan to Drizzt. Although he did consider it.

As for Mooshie, even with his EXP I'd expect him to have much much more experience than Drizzt. And Drizzt did underestimate him. I will admit that there are some parts of each book that ruined my enjoyment, but only temporarily. I can't judge a whole book by one or two flaws (Or bad turns of Plot) as being bad just because of those few flaws. Nothing is perfect.

For me, the good just outweighs the bad.

[Timber Loftis]

Under the D&D rules, it has never been possible to parry 5 daggers in a single round while taking any other action.

But, go ahead -- justify away all you like. I like realistic fantasy, some like goofy Monty Haul.

[edit]
*nods to morgeruat's justification as per the rules*

However, there are only so many such justifications I'm willing to give an author. If it strikes me as OTT, I simply don't like it as much. Salvatore is chock full of characters who appear from nowhere, jump lithely atop a doorsill and crouch preparing to pounce, run on ceilings, have superhuman this and ubermansch that. It just got old after I left the 10th grade (which is when I first encountered Salvatore) -- just my preference.

He does do a good job describing a swordfight, though.

[ 03-02-2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

<font color=deepskyblue>I'll admit that the IWD crew were a tough bunch to go up against. I got a book shortly after they came out that listed bios and stats for all the main characters in several of the TSR books at that time. Drizzt, Bruenor, and Wulfgar ALL had at least one "exceptional" stat. Drizzt had the Dex of 20, Wulfgar had a Str of 19, and Bruenor had a Con of 19 or 20.

In regards to Drizzt's Dex, flipping the coins off the back of his hand isn't all that special. When I was in elementary school, I was quite good at stacking coins on my elbow and catching them in my hand. Even at that time, I could do 20-25 coins fairly easily. I never tried doing both elbows at once, but I feel sure I could do 10 coins off each elbow after just a few practice attempts.

Throwing them off the back of your hand isn't that much more difficult. You just have to make sure they stay in a stack. Even if you line them up, you toss them just enough to get them off your hand. That way, they stay in a fairly straight line. With a little practice, it wouldn't be that hard.

Parrying the 5 daggers while fighting a second opponent, however, is another story entirely. That is completely UBER. I have a villain I created for my PnP campaign (loong before I heard of Salvatore, BTW) that CAN parry 5 attacks per round and STILL deliver 5 attacks per round....but this is an UBER villain designed to take on a Level 20 party by himself

Drizzt never fought the Yochol. That was Wulfgar...and he died in the attempt. Fortunately for him, Salvatore is like the writers of DC and Marvel comics...nobody really dies forever. {in all fairness to Salvatore, however, when I mentioned bringing Wulfgar back in a letter to him, he said he had no plans to do such a thing at that time - I believe Wulfgar's return is entirely due to numerous fan letters making the same suggestion/request}

Aside from Entreri, the toughest single fight I've ever seen Drizzt have is with a Type V Demon - you know, the snake lady with 6 arms. He DID manage to parry all 6 of her attacks every round, but it was pressing his abilities to their absolute limit to do it. After several rounds of being on the defensive, he finally recognized the pattern of her attacks and was able to launch attacks of his own in the brief hesitations between her attacks.

I don't really mind Drizzt and company being so UBER, however. Salvatore has written several other books with characters that weren't UBER-powerful, and he has even killed off some of the main characters in those other books. To get the "full Salvatore experience", it is best to read a wide variety of his books. After reading some of his non-Faerun based novels, it is kind of comforting (and a little exciting) to return to his IWD crew. When the crap gets deep and Drizzt suddenly shows up with Guenwhyvar, you know there is some serious butt-kicking about to take place.

OH..btw...the female that Jarlaxle had pounded, exploded, and incinerated was just a minor authority in a rival thieves guild. Her death was a warning to the rest of the guild to clear out and find a new base of operations far away. I would have to agree that he is Lawful Evil, as is Entreri. Artemis is thoroughly evil, but he DOES have a personal Code of Honor that he adheres to...at least most of the time.</font>

[Jerr Conner]

but he DOES have a personal Code of Honor that he adheres to...at least most of the time.

That should have been my argument [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by Jerr Conner: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />but he DOES have a personal Code of Honor that he adheres to...at least most of the time.

That should have been my argument [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]I would have to agree wholeheartedly here, they are both very evil, but that doesn't mean that there is no honor code, even the undead fallen paladins (Death Knights) which are chaotic evil have a code of honor they apply to opponents they consider worthy (ie paladins, rangers and LG fighters)

[Timber Loftis]

Entreri's my favorite. But still too uber.

If you go back and re-read the coin-catching bit, as I did within the last year, it think you'll find that the description implies that all the coins went high into the air and that to catch them Drizzt had to move his arms in a whir and even twirl his body. It ain't the simple old quarters-on-elbow trick.

This is a problem I have with FR novels generally. Any author is hard-pressed to write in the magic-heavy world of FR without getting some scathing from me. Maybe I'm just jealous -- I wish that at MY home I could step outside and trip over a +3 sword.

[Jerr Conner]

Regis is my favorite, mostly because he seems the peacemaker in the group.

[Timber Loftis]

Yeah. Since he stays in trouble all the time, he keeps their attention and ire focused on himself, rather than on each other. [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]