Imoen Same-Sex Romance

[Azred]

There is no morality issue here; Imoen would be only the PC's half-sister, which makes any question of incest moot. Besides, the PC only grew up near Imoen, not with her. I think the idea of a same-sex romance with Imoen graduates the game to a more emotionally advanced and adult level; would that more games, books, movies, etc. made this leap.

Re: Irenicus. Never forget that Irenicus' motivation is revenge; power is merely the tool with which to exact revenge. He is a monomaniac, obsessed towards one goal only. There are no depths to which he would not sink in order to realize his plans; this includes murder, torture, rape, medical experimentation, etc. Irenicus had to do everything he could in order to break Imoen's spirit, which was the key to helping her unlock and focus her power; if this means defiling her, then so be it. Most likely, Irenicus uses the dryads as practice so his technique will be correct when with Imoen.

[Galadria]

Wow, Azred, I couldn't put it better. The idea that there are depths tp which Irenicus wouldn't sink to is to me, ludicrous.
This just in. After an e-mailing session with Columbus, the guy that is doing the programming, he is having lots of trouble with the whole Bodhi-thing, with getting Immie vampirized. I told him that did sound hard, so why not just leave it out? But, he is stubborn. Also, I've done another group reaction like the one above, this time for Aerie. She is sympathetic, since she has suffered imprisonment and torment, too.

[Azred]

Potential Spoiler Alert!
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The cut-scenes for Aerie, Anomen, Jaheria, and Viconia becoming vampires thanks to Bodhi are "cut53a", "cut53b", "cut53c", and "cut53d", respectively; these are scripts, by the way. I may be stating something completely obvious (and I am not underestimating your colleague's programming ability) but why not use one of those as the basis and create "cut53e" for Imoen? He would need to create a vampiric Imoen to side with Bodhi and place her in Bodhi's lair in chapter 6; I'm not entirely certain how much changing this would require (creating "vampim.cre" and editing the "ar0809" script should do it). Finally, there would (of course) be the task of updating the scene at the statue of Amaunator for restoring her to life (an item for Imoen's corpse (yuk) and updating the "cleanse" script to include Imoen).

I look forward to seeing the completed project. Any idea when this might be complete? [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

re: Aerie. Despite Aerie's past of pain and torture (you tell me getting a limb cut off isn't traumatic and I'll call you a liar) and her uncertainty about being able to return home, I don't think she would fall for a female PC. I just don't see it. Besides, do you want to set a precedent for women being attracted to women to come from some sort of emotional/physical pain in their past? I would guess that you probably wouldn't.
Except for the fact that she is a druid and would therefore follow the course that Nature has dictated, I would more readily beleive Jaheira being attracted to another female; she's more mature and knows herself better.

re: Anomen. I personally would never associate with the arrogant so-and-so in real life; however, Azred is a more forgiving person than I am and thus readily accepts him as part of his party. Azred, himself, took great pride in Anomen overcoming his father's dominance and becoming a member of the Order. Me, I think he's just another "member". [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]


[ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: Azred ]

[Helspanth]

I think that the problem of turning Imoen to a vampire is the loss of the soul.If you kill Imoen the vampire and then you kill Bodhi Imoen's soul will be lost forever.There would be nothing to anchor it to the prime material and so it would head for the afterlife.
One solution would be to keep Imoen the Vampire alive throughout the battle with bodhi but what then?

[Tanoch Thas'ala]

quote:

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Originally posted by Whailor:
Well, whaddya know, I am gone for day or two and stuff's going on..

Well, first of all, about Anomen/Aerie/Viconia - no one asks anyone to love them. So Galadria doesn't like Anomen, good, go on. I am not a fan of his either and can do without him in a party rather well as well. But I neither like whining Aerie or twisted Viconia. These 2 are on the same step of the ladder as Anomen. Everyone twisted in their own weird way, and none needed really at all. But, there's no point to try to elevate Aerie or Viconia, telling that "we understand them" and not to try to understand anyone other. These two haven't had it anyway harder then anyone else.

As for Irenicus - then I still say what I said before - he would not rape Imoen as was put here, because he simply didn't care about that or about Imoen. To Irenicus Imoen and EVERYONE else was just that, lowly life form to experiment upon, nothing. Do you really think that he would then fall so low and do all what you said he did? Nope. Bodhi as such is different and her "games" would perhaps include quite different things that of Irenicus, but ole Jon would not ever fall as low as to mess with Imoen. Imoen (and the PC player in BG2 and his friends) are tools to him, just that. They are something to experiment upon, and then throw away. He did love Ellesime once, as briefly as it was perhaps, but don't think that he would mess with any other woman after that. In a way he still 'feel's something towards Ellesime, though it's not a love anymore.

And Tanoch Thas'ala - I don't care about your 'yawns' really. You haven't yet wrote anything useful regarding this either, it's all one 'yawn' so far to me as well.

[ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: Whailor ]

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Sheesh, such a long winded reply for some one who finds all this a yawn.

The reason I haven't really posted anything usefull is because I didn't feel the need to post anything other than my reply to you. I just found it funny that you feel the need to take this a bit to seriously and to even come down on us for not looking past Anemone's irritatingness.

The reason we or others like Imoen or Viconia or whoever better than anemone is that WE DO understand them better. Or we understand what might motivate them.

Do you play fmale characters? Probably not, you more than likely model the PC after yourself or an alter ego. We as females do the same. I can identiffy with Viconia better than any other cahracter in the game.

In the realy real world i have a very close circle of friends. A t one point there were two people who were very damned annoying. I stopped hanging out with one. Several other friends commented that they didn't understand why I chose one over the other..I just siad that one was annoying in a way I could handle..

I don't like Anemone. I don't want to get to know Anemone. I refuse to. Kinda like in real life. We can choose who we like or don't like.


As for Irenicus, of course he would rape Imoen. He's raping her mentally, why would he stop at physically? Some one said tha Imoen is an ends to a means, or something like that. She is nothing to him...Raping a person is about taking away that person's control. Not about passion. Not about getting some ones rocks off. And raping does not necessarily mean he had sexual intercourse with Imoen. It could mean lots of different things.

I suggest this, Whailor, go to a hospital and talk to some women who were raped. Ask them to tell you what exactly happened. Or if you can't get any of these scarred for life women (uhm men too if there are any) to open up, try looking up a sight that might help women that have been raped to cope...

[Lucifer Lord of demons]

very well said!!!
Even if I am a man I do think the whole idea of imoens romance quite good since:
1 [img]tongue.gif[/img] eople who think that he wouldn't rape her have forgotten about the dryads(or nymphs?)
2:Imoen has suffered as much as you if not worse
3:cause its the creaters goddamn bloody choice!!! If you don't like it don't flame it and avoid the topic althogether (help i'm bggining to sound like Memnoch)

[Lucifer Lord of demons]

very well said!!!
Even if I am a man I do think the whole idea of imoens romance quite good since:
1 [img]tongue.gif[/img] eople who think that he wouldn't rape her have forgotten about the dryads(or nymphs?)
2:Imoen has suffered as much as you if not worse
3:its the creaters goddamn bloody choice!!! If you don't like it don't flame it and avoid the topic althogether (help i'm beggining to sound like Memnoch)

[Memnoch]

Tanoch and Whailor - as I mentioned earlier, it's all fine and good to disagree about this, you're both entitled to that. But make sure you're not dissing each other when taking issue with each other's opinion, ok? Once you start dissing each other flames are not far away. I can see this heading that way (bringing up a serious subject like women getting raped in the real world is a sure sign of that) and I'll be disappointed if neither of you can exhibit the self-control needed to conduct a debate in a civilized manner. Once flames start I won't care who started it. Fair enough?

[ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Whailor]

Well, just to add to the comment "men too if there are any" - there's no point to try to claim that women are the only victims out there. I don't know any myself, but there are also men out there with the same "symptoms", and done - wonder here! - by women. The trick is, all see men as the "stronger" ones, so they are always considered, naturally, as guilty. And when the case is opposite, all say "whoah, this cannot be so, it's impossible". Not to mention the fact that men probably don't even or ever bring this thing out. I aint from US, but I have seen few US made documental movies on such things, so I guess it's not so "un-common" at all. Such things have floated out in local news also occasionally. Thing as such is probably somewhat worse to a man, because woman always gets the "oh we are so sorry, you're the victim and we will help" you thing, while men probably get the "what the hell? your own fault and you're probably lier as well!" thing. But whatever, I do not concern myself with these issues. I may be cold person, I never said I am a "good hearted", but these things really don't "shake" me at all. But enough, it's off-topic already big time and I don't have time to move on to General Chat either. So let's end this here, as this part of the topic is losing it's interest.

Regarding the romance itself - you should take into consideration the Nalia romance as well. Not the romance itself, but the technical side of it, i.e. if you create a new script, where Imoen gets 'vampirized' and use for that some existing script, then verify whether the Nalia script has it too. There's a slight, but possible chance that your script may get into conflict - technical side-wise - with Nalia's script. There's always a chance that the person who downloads your script to try it out, has also downloaded the Nalia's romance. Probably also the TDD, so need to check how it works with it as well. It's a pain to test it all and to make it work if needed, but it may be needed. And if the person has, from all romances there are, Nalia's romance active, it means some totally new but needed dialogue lines may be needed as well.

[Galadria]

Wow. Azred, I am e-mailing your post to Columbus, to see if that helps. I am sure that the Nalia romance conflict may be involved, because we both have downloaded it, and we both have Nal in our party, to judge from the saved games that he has e-mailed me. As for time, who knows? He is struggling with several bugs, and would really like to see it go gold. I'll keep everybody posted, so to speak. I am now at work on the conflict between Anomen and Imoen, for the PC's affection, as Columbus doesn't like his, and we really could get some resonance, there. I told him that I didn't think that anyone who would want to do the Imoen romance would be romancing Anomen, but he seems to think that it's important. How about starting out: Anomen: "My lady, I cannot help but notice that you have allowed your sister to sleep with you since we rescued her, after declining my offer." LOL