09-13-2001, 12:37 AM | #41 |
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Moni, it is late and I am tired. Otherwise, I would answer you at much greater length.
For now I will just say that in all the examples you named, there were reasons of national self-interest behind each. The US does not typically do anything at all on the international scene, unless it is in the national interest, the same as other countries. That is the historical and political reality. The actions of the Red Cross and other private organizations clearly are not the same as actions of the US government. The government cannot take credit for such. One major exception, a rare case where the US gov't and military intervened for truly noble reasons, was Kosovo. As it turns out, President Clinton and his government received tremendous criticism from other Americans for doing so. Apparently, the idea of risking US lives for purely noble objectives for once was quite objectionable to many Americans. |
09-13-2001, 01:49 AM | #42 | |
Red Wizard of Thay
Join Date: August 17, 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 874
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Quote:
While our troops were in foreign countries, dreaming of homeland and their families, the families left behind in America had to understand that our own freedom wasn't all that mattered! Do me a favor 'Dio' do your homework before you put down the Americans as being self centered! When was the last time you left YOUR family to go to another country to fight for their freedom? Just a question! And Cloudy, please don't lump all Americans in your comments of us being more interested in sports than in world news. It IS there. If you are individually not interested, that's your choice. ------------------ Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar LH Member General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else. But from that day forward, mothers would tell their kittens that if they were not good, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him. [This message has been edited by Liliara (edited 09-13-2001).] [This message has been edited by Liliara (edited 09-13-2001).] |
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09-13-2001, 02:03 AM | #43 |
Red Wizard of Thay
Join Date: August 17, 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 874
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To 'Dio' and anyone upset by these remarks....
I felt the need to post this from another thread.... Originally posted by KDogRex: This was written in a Canadian Newspaper and honestly made me cry as I read it...mostly because what was written finally appears to be coming true...thank you to every person rfom abroad who has supported us in this horrific event. I will always remember you... This, from a Canadian newspaper, no less, is worth sharing. > > > > > > America: The Good Neighbor. > > > > > > Widespread but only partial news coverage was given > > > > recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from > > > > Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television > > > > commentator. What follows is the full text of his > > > > trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional > > > > Record: > > > > > > > > "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the > > > > Americans as the most generous and possibly the least > > > > appreciated people on all the earth. > > > > > > > > Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and > > > > Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the > > > > Americans who poured in billions of dollars and > > > > forgave other billions in debts. None of these > > > > countries is today paying even the interest on its > > > > remaining debts to the United States. > > > > > > > > When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it > > > > was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward > > > > was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of > > > > Paris. I was there. I saw it. > > > > > > > > When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United > > > > States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 > > > > American communities were flattened by tornadoes. > > > > Nobody helped. > > > > > > > > The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped > > > > billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now > > > > newspapers in those countries are writing about the > > > > decadent, warmongering Americans. > > > > > > > > I'd like to see just one of those countries that is > > > > gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar > > > > build its own airplane. Does any other country in the > > > > world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the > > > > Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why > > > > don't they fly them? Why do all the International > > > > lines except Russia fly American Planes? > > > > > > > > Why does no other land on earth even consider putting > > > > a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese > > > > technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German > > > > technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about > > > > American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - > > > > not once, but several times and safely home again. > > > > > > > > You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs > > > > right in the store window for everybody to look at. > > > > Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. > > > > They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless > > > > they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American > > > > dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. > > > > > > > > When the railways of France, Germany and India were > > > > breaking down through age, it was the Americans who > > > > rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the > > > > New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an > > > > old caboose. Both are still broke. > > > > > > > > I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to > > > > the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me > > > > even one time when someone else raced to the Americans > > > > in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even > > > > during the San Francisco earthquake. > > > > > > > > Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one > > > > Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get > > > > kicked around. They will come out of this thing with > > > > their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled > > > > to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating > > > > over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one > > > > of those." > > > > > > > > Stand proud, America! > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > This is one of the best editorials that I have ever > > > > read regarding the United States. It is nice that one > > > > man realizes it. I only wish that the rest of the > > > > world would realize it. We are always blamed for > > > > everything, and never even get a thank you for the > > > > things we do. > > > > > > > > Maybe each of you can send this to at least one person > > > > and they might send it to one of their friends until this letter > > > > is sent to every person on the web. ------------------ Guitars, women, beer...what more can a man ask for? I AM the bard eternal ------------------ Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar LH Member General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else. But from that day forward, mothers would tell their kittens that if they were not good, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him. [This message has been edited by Liliara (edited 09-13-2001).] |
09-13-2001, 02:15 AM | #44 | |
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
Join Date: August 16, 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,891
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Quote:
I can't say anything to the Vietnam wars and what America has done in the last century because I know just about nothing about it (in Germany History lessons begins with the ancient Egyptians and works to modern times. We're currently somewhere around WWI). What I do know is that American help saved Germany's economy and kept thousands of people from starving after WWII - among others my grandmother's family. ------------------ Kazara Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe [This message has been edited by Kaz (edited 09-13-2001).] |
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09-13-2001, 02:16 AM | #45 |
Red Wizard of Thay
Join Date: August 17, 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 874
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I'm not interested in fighting. I am too drained right now. Catch me tomarrow,though!
------------------ Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar LH Member General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else. But from that day forward, mothers would tell their kittens that if they were not good, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him. |
09-13-2001, 02:31 AM | #46 | |
Drow Warrior
Join Date: June 21, 2001
Location: the not to distant future,
Posts: 250
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Quote:
------------------ "Heads are gonna roll..." |
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09-13-2001, 08:04 AM | #47 | |||||
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Are you rested yet? j/k, you don't have to answer me at all if you don't feel like it. Quote:
If you are willing to prove that without using speculation, I will be willing to learn something from you. Quote:
Again, if you are willing to prove this without using speculation, I will be willing to learn something from you. Quote:
No kidding! Did I say or even imply that The Red Cross was a military based organization? I said it was an American based organization (originated in America). This thread does not confine itself to a strictly military standpoint on how important the rest of the world is to American citizens and my post was not meant to be perceived as one. Quote:
I do not personally know anyone in America who was so upset that the Americans would go into Kosovo and help people being murdered there who could not help themselves that they would demand our withdrawal from that country during that period of time! I saw more praise than reprehension for our country's actions to save innocent people from ethnic cleansing. If legitimate statistics prove me wrong than the majority of Americans who don't care must come from some other part of this country, some part I have never been exposed to nor would I want to be. I saw more rallying support for the safety of those people than I saw any "whining" that our boys went in to help them. I have an acquaintance from Kosovo who is married to a former Army Sgt that she met there when he was on assignment to act as a reporter during that conflict and neither one of them speak of ill feelings from any direction for what America did to help. Please, if you have legitimate stastics, feel free to prove me wrong. If those who criticized Clinton's decision to go in and help those people were Republican politicians, I can see where you could perceive your information as being factual but what can you prove from a viewpoint of the actual American people as to how wrong it was to let that atrocity continue based merely on the claim that our men's lives were more important than the lives of innocent men, women and children being slaughtered in Kosovo? ------------------ You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity. Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not! |
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09-13-2001, 08:10 AM | #48 |
Horus - Egyptian Sky God
Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: either CA or MO
Age: 42
Posts: 2,674
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there is no reality, only perceptions, so we both can be right
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09-13-2001, 08:27 AM | #49 |
Symbol of Cyric
Join Date: August 17, 2001
Location: Waterdeep
Age: 44
Posts: 1,222
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Nobody is overreacting on Twin Tower, it's a catastrophe! From this moment and on, nothing will be same again, I cant understand these bloody, revengeful creatures! LAden's words are unbelieveable. Stupid long-beared creature. I'm not an American and I'm not living there but I feel the same.. Because the people dying there.. we're all living in the same planet.. sharing the same oceans.. breathing the same air.. we are all one
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09-13-2001, 08:35 AM | #50 | |
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OMG there are miricles...Moni and I on the same side of an issue?? heheh Just Kidding Moni, very nice post by the way! And I do recall both Saudi Arabia AND Kuwait BEGGING for the US to send aid in the war against Saddam. I also recall Saddam BEGGING for the aid of the US when Iran was about to trounce Iraq in a bloody genocidal war (course we didnt know he was the bastard he is, at the time) If it weren't for Isreal we should just pull our aid programs and shipments of hundreds of tons fo food to the middle east and just look after our selves since According to Diog. we are only self serving bullys anyhow. You know the only reason these places have any wealth at all is because US industries and rich oold white men helpped them set up and use the technology to produce the oil they didn't even know they had. ------------------ Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it. |
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