In a Pigs Eye....or maybe not.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Masklinn: The second problem is that you can find "connections" in everything. Imagin a guy spending 10$ to buy food for his dog. He could have given this money to, let's say, the Red Cross that helps people in Africa (and elsewhere too). Then imagin an article starting by : "It's a shame that this person don't care as much about africans as he does about dogs." Deny the connection if you want. But this will still be highly offensive.

Amen. My thoughts EXACTLY. It's a shame the US doesn't care as much about its own hungry homeless as it does about giving colleges grants to research homosexuality, for instance.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Donut: National Review Online

Stalwart bastion of blind-follow-the-ignorant conservative thought, and official sock puppet of Mr. Monkey President.

Originally posted by Donut: National Review Online. I'm not sure why they discuss international news but they are obviously very fair and open minded. I particularly like this suggestion on how best to punish France for having the temerity to disagree with US Government policy: “Visit France, this summer! Tip well, be polite, and attempt to speak their language! Act like it's no big deal that they've never done a single good thing for us. Show that we have nothing but goodwill for every smelly, wine-swilling coward in their entire nation. Say something like, ‘I really like you guys. I really do!’ with all the American earnestness and good-humor you can muster. “ That was signed, “Paul Bibeau,” who added “I know, it's a frog name. But I'm American, dammit.”

I don't beleieve anyone was touting the merits of NRO [img]smile.gif[/img] It is as fair and open minded as many of the sources I see referenced by our esteemed forummembers both here and abroad.

[Cloudbringer]

MagiK, thanks for clearing the origin of the article up.

Masklinn, sometimes articles posted will offend one or another of us because we all have different tolerance levels for such things. Debating the topic can still be done, HOPEFULLY without purposely causing more offense.

The trick is not to let things get to you too easily, there's always someone who disagrees with you out there! But on the occasion when it really is something you can't abide, or think was malicious, let a moderator know, ask the person to clarify (maybe you misunderstood) or tell them how you feel. Moderators aren't here to choose sides or validate particular opinions in everyone's posts, but we are here to make sure the forum rules are followed and keep things flowing smoothly, or as smoothly as humanly possible on the net.

[Masklinn]

Cloudy (do you mind ? [img]smile.gif[/img] ),

I know you're just doing your moderator job (and you're doing it good). I find this article offensive, I think everyone got that [img]smile.gif[/img] , but I m not complaining about it. I just want to debate.

MagiK posted it here, so I think he is trying to tell us something. I just want to know what and also why he doesn't seem to find it offensive.

Seeing his lack of response to my points, I think I understood his motivations and this will end there.

Now if you think I went too far with what I said, if you think I crossed the line, if you think I "flamebaited", just tell me and I will prevent this to happen again.

If you are just worrying about me being hurt, then don't worry. I'm french, I've always been close to communities like this one and I've heard things way worse than that. For example I learned once that french people don't brush their teeth [img]smile.gif[/img] . Imagin the shock !

I don't want any misunderstanding.

Voila [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Masklinn: Cloudy (do you mind ? [img]smile.gif[/img] ), I know you're just doing your moderator job (and you're doing it good). I find this article offensive, I think everyone got that [img]smile.gif[/img] , but I m not complaining about it. I just want to debate. MagiK posted it here, so I think he is trying to tell us something. I just want to know what and also why he doesn't seem to find it offensive. Actually I find that particular comment offensive (about frenchmen)not the whole article. Seeing his lack of response to my points, I think I understood his motivations and this will end there. I am posting from work, so I do not always respond immediately. I have no motive to insult you nor anyone in particular. I have a serious disagreement with France as a country right now, but nothing against anyone in particular. Now if you think I went too far with what I said, if you think I crossed the line, if you think I "flamebaited", just tell me and I will prevent this to happen again. I think you did fine in saying what you said, although I think you got the wrong impression about what the article was all about...it was not france nore french people. If you are just worrying about me being hurt, then don't worry. I'm french, I've always been close to communities like this one and I've heard things way worse than that. For example I learned once that french people don't brush their teeth [img]smile.gif[/img] . Imagin the shock ! I don't want any misunderstanding. Voila [img]smile.gif[/img]

My reason for posting is that millions of people in africa are starving, and yet this kind of porcine feces is what gets bandied about by government officials..or whoever. GM's are available and ready to feed millions as well, but it is not distributed due to some vagaries of fear and scientific or non-scientific (depending on which side you are on) fears.
We in the US eat GM products and if it is good enough for us, I fail to see why millions of starving people would not want to eat it now too. Instead political games are played and people starve to death...they are dead, but at least GM's didn't kill them

[ 02-20-2003, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Davros]

But Ray - the point is that pork toys are not thought to be more important than starving people by Europeans.

If that article is proof then its writer needs to go back to credibility school. Read the article - it says that Europe has funny laws for pigs. Ok - that is an interesting and unusual fact - but that is all it is. The writer (and thanks for providing the source - I will be on the watch for the objectivity of their articles in future) is the one that has the GM drum to beat. The writer is the one that says that the Europeans are standing in the way of GM. The writer is the one that connects that last statement with starving millions. And the biggest crime of all - the writer then imposes his view by linking a totally unrelated and mildly humourous event (pig laws) with the European stance on GM. As Masklinn has pointed out - there is no relation between the two other than what the writer provides.

The intent of this article is not to expose, not to inform, not to debate, not to increase knowledge - it's intent was to push an agenda which is closely tied to the views to the writer and the paper. It also took the opportunity to link this acivity with another "popular" pastime at the moment (anti French or anti European sentiment because of the war).

Masklinn has made much the same points in his posts above, and I congratulate him on his tolerance and insightfulness.

[Masklinn]

although I think you got the wrong impression about what the article was all about...it was not france nore french people.

I understood that, and I felt aimed as an european, not just a french.

The comment about frenchmen didnt shock me. I just didn't understand it at all [img]smile.gif[/img]

"It's a shame European functionaries don't care as much about Africans as they do about pigs." - This particular sentence shocked me for good. For many reasons.

But anyway, let's get over it. I think we got each other points. And I think Cloudy is getting really worried about this thread turning into a flame at any moment [img]smile.gif[/img]

Also, we could start another thread aout GM food if you want. Could be interresting.

That being said, I hope no offense has been made at all.
Now come over here and gimme a friendly inter-continental hug

[Ar-Cunin]

The law on 'pig-toys' is about animal welfare. Pigs on a modern farm ( and cramped conditions) have a tendency to bite each other (especially ears and tail). the 'toys' (which usually are hung from the ceiling) gives them something else to bite on.

[Masklinn]

Thank you very much Davros for understanding and explaining my (sometimes confused) points !
Nothing to add

--==(*peace*)==--