06-18-2002, 09:08 AM | #41 |
Horus - Egyptian Sky God
Join Date: April 10, 2001
Location: Tacoma, WA, U.S.A.
Age: 40
Posts: 2,615
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"The "deluded" and lack of tolerance posts were made by people on this board in other threads"
It was said by HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] |
06-18-2002, 09:09 AM | #42 |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: North Carolina
Age: 61
Posts: 3,257
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Spelca, here are just a couple of (paraphrased) statements that have been made in other posts
Statements such as "I prefer actual facts over fantasy characters" or (my favorite) "I prefer to think for myself, rather than have somebody else or thier book tell me how to think." Statements of that nature are directly insinuating that Christians are scared little sheep that are afraid to have an original thought. It also implies that we are not as "enlightened" (ergo intelligent) as those who disagree with us. That type of accusation naturally makes a person defensive. Don't get me wrong, Christians can be just as insulting and arrogant towards non-believers. I acknowledge that is true and I understand where you are coming from. I admit that it is difficult for me to fully understand your point of view because I was raised in a Christian home and I have never questioned the existence of God. So, I have a difficult time seeing things from that perspective. That's not to say your viewpoint is less valid, just that I cannot fully understand it because my experience has been different. I respect your right to NOT believe in God. It saddens me, but I respect your right to believe or not as you see fit. You asked why Christians keep trying to convince you that God exists. The answer is two-fold. First, the Bible commands us to tell the Good News of God and Jesus. The second reason is that our relationship with God is SO exciting, we want everyone to experience it. For example, my cousin LOVES rollercoasters, but they scare me to death. When we were younger, she would always try to get me to ride the rollercoaster when we went on vacation. Was she just trying to be mean and scare me? No. She just enjoyed the thrill of rollercoasters so much that she wanted me to experience that same thrill. In her opinion, I was missing out on something that was very exciting. Christians feel the same way. I don't want you to believe in God to prove that I'm right and you're wrong. I want everyone to experience the joy and exhiliration I have found in having a personal relationship with my Creator. However, just like I have never gotten on a rollercoaster, I understand there will be many who simply have no desire to seek the experience I have had. But, as I've gotten older, my fear of rollercoasters has subsided and I've at least considered giving them a try. All I can do is hope that the joy and happiness I feel as a Christian will make non-believers at least a little curious - and maybe they will reconsider their viewpoint too. [ 06-18-2002, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]
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[img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth |
06-18-2002, 09:13 AM | #43 |
Legion Symbol
Join Date: May 29, 2002
Location: Somewhere in between
Age: 39
Posts: 7,029
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hmmm very interesting... I think I would have to agree with you. I wont state any personal preferences towards religion... but, I understand what you are saying. well said!
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Skydracgrrl: Cruelty, thy name is Cal! --- There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, none so deaf as those who refuse to hear, and none so smelly as those who refuse to bathe. |
06-18-2002, 09:33 AM | #44 |
Guest
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Just a quick note to say that Cerek does indeed understand my intentions. I do not wish to put Christians down in any way. I just simply wish to "understand" why they believe what they believe. I'm sorry if I come across as Anti-Christian, rather than non-Christian.
I hope that Yorick (I think I've been spelling your name wrong since the creation of Santa ) can consider my questions and viewpoints in a friendly manner, as Cerek has. Otherwise, a discussion becomes an argument very quickly. I do respect you Yorick, and you have far more knowledge of religion than I could ever hope for. I'm obviously just writing down my confusion and I'm sure that comes across. Avi. |
06-18-2002, 09:37 AM | #45 | ||
Emerald Dragon
Join Date: January 3, 2002
Location: From Slovenia, in Sweden
Age: 42
Posts: 931
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Hey!
Quote:
Quote:
--------- Nice post otherwise. [img]smile.gif[/img] As I said before, I understand why people believe, and I accept it. And I appreciate that you understand how I can feel a bit annoyed sometimes when people try to convince me to believe differently. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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At one time or another there will be a choice: you or the wall. (J. Winterson) |
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06-18-2002, 09:41 AM | #46 |
Legion Symbol
Join Date: May 29, 2002
Location: Somewhere in between
Age: 39
Posts: 7,029
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I think that some of the problem ppl have is HOW others are trying to convince them... No-one enjoys being forced into something; OR being told that what the believe in/dont believe is a pile of... er rubish... That seems to have given 'vertain' religionS a bad name.... not that really has much to do with the current topic but,
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Skydracgrrl: Cruelty, thy name is Cal! --- There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, none so deaf as those who refuse to hear, and none so smelly as those who refuse to bathe. |
06-18-2002, 10:42 AM | #47 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
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Quote:
I don't think you have a narrow mind in this, and I'm sorry (to you and other athiests I know) if it came across like that. What I am saying is that, the Christian and the non-Christian can both have the experience of life without God, but when one comes to know Christ, they are having an additional experience. What follows is such joy and peace that new converts (the "born again ones" as people mistakenly call them - all Christians are born again) want to 'share the secret' with as many as possible. My late Grandfather equated Christianity as one hungry beggar, telling another hungry beggar where to find food. Avi, no-one can make you believe anything. I cannot 'give you belief'. The experience of knowing God is an individual relationship. It is up to you to determine if you want or need that, and whether to attempt to let him in. Praying to invite him in is the starting point. What follows is the experience of him working in your life. Answering prayer. Feeling his presence - a physical sensation of warmth, tingly goose bumped skin, and a definite palpable ease of pressure in the mind. Calming it or giving inner strength you didn't know you possessed. The apostle John speaks of "One blessing after another". This is not only a perceptional rearrangement, but can re-order circumstances. Bringing people, places and events into your life that otherwise would never occur. As for me, I create. I cannot but help but see creative genius in so much of nature. From the beauty of a single leaf to the entire forest. To the dramatic painting in a sunset, to the rythm of waves. To the vulnerable beauty in a baby possum, to the intricacies of a human eye, that changes when it fills with tears. To the wonder of a hug, the sensation of lime on your tongue, the wind in your hair or being immersed in water. The sound of the lyrebird and water dripping in a cave to the humming of a person unaware you can hear them. So much beauty Avi. So much order, love, genius and design I'm in tears of appreciative joy simply writing this. And, we, creations of his can subsequently create ourselves. Can choose to accept or reject him. Can sing from the bottom of our souls how glad we are to be alive. Imagine if you could create something that could independently love you of it's own free will. How would you find who really loves you and who feels compelled? Would you not create something like what we have? Where you weren't physically staring the person in the face all the time so that if they wished they could live their lives without you interfering? Yet making it obvious enough that people could search you out? Search being the operative word. Love with a cost is stronger than easy love is it not? When one invests in a relationship, overcoming some obstacles, perhaps forgiving, making oneself vulnerable, it has more value yes? |
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06-18-2002, 11:20 AM | #48 | |
Symbol of Cyric
Join Date: March 6, 2001
Location: Somewhere on Earth - it changes often
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Quote:
I've got to say, I enjoy these threads though. When they remain civil But I find it makes me assess and analyse my own beliefs which I find challenging. It's good to stay outside the comfort zone and not get complacent...
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Better run through the jungle! Grrr... |
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06-19-2002, 01:04 AM | #49 |
Baaz Draconian
Join Date: October 11, 2001
Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Age: 53
Posts: 721
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I agree with Leonis. I may never have my opinions changed by these discussions, but I sure like having them challenged!
As long as this remains a discussion and not an argument, I am happy to participate.
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Est Sularis oth Mithas |
06-19-2002, 03:21 AM | #50 | |
Dracolisk
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 44
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Quote:
[ 06-19-2002, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]
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[img]\"hosted/melusine.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Your voice is ambrosia |
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