Just...bloody... brilliant....(rant)

[Sever]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by PurpleXVI: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by Sever: In that case: Communism = for the people. Capitalism = for the planet.

Actually, most of the self-proclaimed Communist regimes aren't too hot on protecting the environment either. [/QUOTE]Ignoring for a moment what is Communism and not, China's Three Gorges Dam is a pretty good example of this, it's already dealt the death blow to a unique species of river dolphins, if I remember right.
[/QUOTE]It is expected that the cost of the massive environmental problems they've created will significantly slow down the growth of the Chinese economy in the future. And while I don't have any dirt on Cuba, the (former) Soviet Union was definitely one of the worst polluters in the history of Man. [/QUOTE]I thought many of their remote oil and resource industries still were.

My original comment wasn't meant to be taken at full face value. That said, (and not wanting to turn a freedom of speech/knowledge thread into a Communism/Capitalism debate) i will explain it just a little. The key factor in humankind's pollution of the earth since the industrial revolution has been greed. Since greed does not exist in the ideology of Marx Communism, a communist state would theoretically be free of the individualistic motives that give rise to shortcomings present at every level of technological and industrial advance. Take away that element (an impossibility so long as a single 'individual' exists), and you also remove the potential for environmentally damaging mistakes. Mistakes being things like the fact that we are still using fossil fuels.

In a capitalist state, greed (or enlightened self-interest, if you prefer) is the driving force. Environmental damage is considered collateral unless there is significant economic penalty resulting from it. From the consumer to the CEO to the shareholder, all are guilty.

Whilst we in the 'free' world like to think the commies stuffed it all up because they were commies, the true cause is probably closer to the fact that they never were and never could be so long as the rest of the world wasn't. Communism would be fantastic for the health of the planet were the idealogy of Communism itself not (currently? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] ) fundamentally flawed.

[PurpleXVI]

I'd like to say that calling Communism fundamentally flawed is a bit of a mistake, plenty of people are capable of putting aside their personal greed to work for the greater good. The majority may not be able to, but that could change, I am convinced of it.

It's just a matter of what values are currently held up in our society.

[Sever]

You'll notice that i pondered that comment when i stated it. I too think that there'll be changes. As it is now, it couldn't work. It's an all or nothing transfer, and big business holds too many of our strings.

[PurpleXVI]

Ah, my apologies, I read what you wrote wrong.

I misread it as a minor jab at Communism, sorry.

[Dreamer128]

Originally posted by Sever: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by PurpleXVI: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by Sever: In that case: Communism = for the people. Capitalism = for the planet.

Actually, most of the self-proclaimed Communist regimes aren't too hot on protecting the environment either. [/QUOTE]Ignoring for a moment what is Communism and not, China's Three Gorges Dam is a pretty good example of this, it's already dealt the death blow to a unique species of river dolphins, if I remember right.
[/QUOTE]It is expected that the cost of the massive environmental problems they've created will significantly slow down the growth of the Chinese economy in the future. And while I don't have any dirt on Cuba, the (former) Soviet Union was definitely one of the worst polluters in the history of Man. [/QUOTE]I thought many of their remote oil and resource industries still were.
[/QUOTE]True enough, but the Russian Federation is not the Soviet Union. As for the relation between tourism and the environment, common sense doesn't always seem to enter into that equation. Take the Mediterranean for example. Coastal resorts are a haven for tourists, yet the sea was used as a glorified thrash heap by many countries. A while ago, the European Union took on the challenge of stopping the problem at the source, (80 percent of the pollution comes from industrial emissions, municipal waste and urban waste water) since the individual countries were remaining largely inactive.

[PurpleXVI]

Cuba seems to be trying to pin it's future on biotechnology and computer science, so they likely do not have an excessive heavy industry at the moment, though what I've been able to dig up does reveal that they have some natural resources that need digging up and processing, and that they export some of those.

The CIA world factbook, however, says that they are coping with air and water pollution these days.

[Sever]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by Sever: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by PurpleXVI: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by Sever: In that case: Communism = for the people. Capitalism = for the planet.

Actually, most of the self-proclaimed Communist regimes aren't too hot on protecting the environment either. [/QUOTE]Ignoring for a moment what is Communism and not, China's Three Gorges Dam is a pretty good example of this, it's already dealt the death blow to a unique species of river dolphins, if I remember right.
[/QUOTE]It is expected that the cost of the massive environmental problems they've created will significantly slow down the growth of the Chinese economy in the future. And while I don't have any dirt on Cuba, the (former) Soviet Union was definitely one of the worst polluters in the history of Man. [/QUOTE]I thought many of their remote oil and resource industries still were.
[/QUOTE]True enough, but the Russian Federation is not the Soviet Union. [/QUOTE]Yes, i know. But the Russian Federation has inherited it.