Dreadlocks...why? - Page 4

Chewbacca · 12-13-2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ladyzekke:
Chewbacca, congrats to you [img]smile.gif[/img] I quit smoking as well in August, and know what you mean regarding sense of smell.

Congrats to you too Ladyzekke. It was tough but well worth it. Smelling things better was a benefit I hadn't even considered til I had it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Lucern · 12-13-2006, 03:58 AM

I see some racism here and a lot of common misconceptions about race. Please hear me out.

It is racist:

1) To believe that you can base race on biology (hair, skin, etc). Racial typologies have all easily failed the tests of scientific validity.

2) To assign culture to biological elements like skin color (which is pretty incoherent if you think about it - whatever we may think about culture, your upbringing determines your identity, nor your birth, though resistance to the claims of identity made by others is interesting ((or not made...maybe it's just hair [img]smile.gif[/img] )))

Popular media is pretty ignorant about this: either taking the naive approach that they don't 'see' race (yeah, they do - if they were more mature about it they'd be able to deal with it), or that races exist but do not affect anything. Well, yeah they do. There's a little thing called society wherein races do matter to varying degrees. Failing to acknowledge this and take it seriously is pretty unfair to people living with its negative effects.

You may be thinking "But we can see all see race." Yeah, that's the point. See Ann Stoler's Race and the Education of Desire, for an account of historical shifts as they relate to race, or The Emperor's New Clothes by Joseph Graves for an account of attempts to use biology to prove that races exist from the benign but misguided to eugenics. Also, since Larry mentioned Cherokee identity, Circe Sturm's work on race and tribal identity among the Cherokee, "Blood Politics" does a good job with it.

Before I started down the road to being an anthropologist and started reading about race, I took a perspective that 'yeah, I guess there are races, but of course we're all born equal'. That's pretty common, and not all racisms are equal. At least my racism was ignorant but mostly benign. Of course, when we hear 'racist' we think of its worst embodiment, and we all know what that looks like - to be accused of it naturally offends us. That really doesn't sound like anyone here, particularly in that this thread started with an effort to learn more.

Ultimately, I think that the most ethical thing to do is to accept that we're all racist to a degree - in that we see race at the least. The key is to be aware of it, to limit its power over our thinking, and to dissuade others from the idea that race is a salient biological concept. It's social, it's pernicious, and it has real impacts on all of us. In the spirit of dissuading others, I'm happy to monitor this thread and debate the point until our eyes bleed

After all, it's either this or I have to seriously work on my papers.

Variol (Farseer) Elmwood · 12-13-2006, 05:58 AM

31 posts on dreadlocks. I dare say the forumers have hit a new low.

I don't know anyone who has them, so I can't say much about the smell. I find it looks dumb. I see it on white people and black people. It has nothing to do with racism, it's just a style and maybe there's some laziness added in there as well. I see it and I think, are you waiting for birds to nest in your head? Could I turn you over and mop the floor with your head?

I see people with their gothic looks. I think they have some issues. I see people wearing jeans with a skirt over it; guess that's fashion?
I know people that overweight that smell. Am I a racist because they smell?
I see people wearing pants that are 8 sizes too big, with the crotch down to their knees. I think it looks idiotic and like you're trying to overephasize for something that's not there.

Sorry, racism has nothing to do with it, unless you automatically don't like anyone who looks a certain way; that's racism, or prejudice. The are just styles one doesn't understand and who never wear.

Now, lets do the righr thing and close this "dreaded" thread! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hivetyrant · 12-13-2006, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Variol (Farseer) Elmwood:
Now, lets do the righr thing and close this "dreaded" thread! [img]smile.gif[/img]

..... I think I just died a little inside

Variol (Farseer) Elmwood · 12-13-2006, 06:22 AM

Hive, buddy, it's only fair, 'cos you're killing me with that sig thing. Could you put something in there that doesn't move? I have such a hard time reading anything 'cos it's distracting.

Larry_OHF · 12-13-2006, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Posted by Lucern: Before I started down the road to being an anthropologist and started reading about race...

Oh cool! Now I know where to come to ask for help in the next three weeks as I am taking a cultural anthropology class that starts tomorrow. You're my new online tutor.

Lucern · 12-13-2006, 09:09 AM

lol Larry. Funny you should mention that. They gave me my teaching assistant position for next semester. I'm TA'ing an ONLINE intro to anthropology course. I'm not even sure what that entails...

Larry_OHF · 12-13-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lucern:
lol Larry. Funny you should mention that. They gave me my teaching assistant position for next semester. I'm TA'ing an ONLINE intro to anthropology course. I'm not even sure what that entails...

Well, I need to help you practice.
It will be my pleasure help break you into the TA business.

Lucern · 12-13-2006, 11:33 PM

Sure Larry, shoot me a PM if you have a question, though intros to anthropology are usually easy-breezy. 3 weeks is kinda condensed though, so I guess they'll hit you with volume in any case.

Oh, I'm a seasoned TA as of today (wrote, gave, and graded my first final), so I think I'm technically a pro now. Let me introduce you to my hourly rate

Larry_OHF · 12-13-2006, 11:37 PM

Hourly rate? I was hoping you'd just accept an invite to the Moderators' Lounge and hang out with Ziroc and the other mods for a while.

There will be food!

12-13-2006, 05:58 AM	#33
Variol (Farseer) Elmwood Jack Burton Join Date: May 16, 2003 Location: Dartmouth, NS Canada Age: 60 Posts: 5,634	31 posts on dreadlocks. I dare say the forumers have hit a new low. I don't know anyone who has them, so I can't say much about the smell. I find it looks dumb. I see it on white people and black people. It has nothing to do with racism, it's just a style and maybe there's some laziness added in there as well. I see it and I think, are you waiting for birds to nest in your head? Could I turn you over and mop the floor with your head? I see people with their gothic looks. I think they have some issues. I see people wearing jeans with a skirt over it; guess that's fashion? I know people that overweight that smell. Am I a racist because they smell? I see people wearing pants that are 8 sizes too big, with the crotch down to their knees. I think it looks idiotic and like you're trying to overephasize for something that's not there. Sorry, racism has nothing to do with it, unless you automatically don't like anyone who looks a certain way; that's racism, or prejudice. The are just styles one doesn't understand and who never wear. Now, lets do the righr thing and close this "dreaded" thread! [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ A MAN WHO WANTS FOR NOTHING HAS INFINITE WEALTH. (me)

12-13-2006, 06:22 AM	#35
Variol (Farseer) Elmwood Jack Burton Join Date: May 16, 2003 Location: Dartmouth, NS Canada Age: 60 Posts: 5,634	Hive, buddy, it's only fair, 'cos you're killing me with that sig thing. Could you put something in there that doesn't move? I have such a hard time reading anything 'cos it's distracting. __________________ A MAN WHO WANTS FOR NOTHING HAS INFINITE WEALTH. (me)

12-13-2006, 11:37 PM	#40
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 49 Posts: 14,759	Hourly rate? I was hoping you'd just accept an invite to the Moderators' Lounge and hang out with Ziroc and the other mods for a while. There will be food! __________________

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12-13-2006, 03:58 AM	#32
Lucern Quintesson Join Date: August 28, 2004 Location: the middle of Michigan Age: 43 Posts: 1,011	I see some racism here and a lot of common misconceptions about race. Please hear me out. It is racist: 1) To believe that you can base race on biology (hair, skin, etc). Racial typologies have all easily failed the tests of scientific validity. 2) To assign culture to biological elements like skin color (which is pretty incoherent if you think about it - whatever we may think about culture, your upbringing determines your identity, nor your birth, though resistance to the claims of identity made by others is interesting ((or not made...maybe it's just hair [img]smile.gif[/img] ))) Popular media is pretty ignorant about this: either taking the naive approach that they don't 'see' race (yeah, they do - if they were more mature about it they'd be able to deal with it), or that races exist but do not affect anything. Well, yeah they do. There's a little thing called society wherein races do matter to varying degrees. Failing to acknowledge this and take it seriously is pretty unfair to people living with its negative effects. You may be thinking "But we can see all see race." Yeah, that's the point. See Ann Stoler's Race and the Education of Desire, for an account of historical shifts as they relate to race, or The Emperor's New Clothes by Joseph Graves for an account of attempts to use biology to prove that races exist from the benign but misguided to eugenics. Also, since Larry mentioned Cherokee identity, Circe Sturm's work on race and tribal identity among the Cherokee, "Blood Politics" does a good job with it. Before I started down the road to being an anthropologist and started reading about race, I took a perspective that 'yeah, I guess there are races, but of course we're all born equal'. That's pretty common, and not all racisms are equal. At least my racism was ignorant but mostly benign. Of course, when we hear 'racist' we think of its worst embodiment, and we all know what that looks like - to be accused of it naturally offends us. That really doesn't sound like anyone here, particularly in that this thread started with an effort to learn more. Ultimately, I think that the most ethical thing to do is to accept that we're all racist to a degree - in that we see race at the least. The key is to be aware of it, to limit its power over our thinking, and to dissuade others from the idea that race is a salient biological concept. It's social, it's pernicious, and it has real impacts on all of us. In the spirit of dissuading others, I'm happy to monitor this thread and debate the point until our eyes bleed After all, it's either this or I have to seriously work on my papers.

12-13-2006, 09:09 AM	#37
Lucern Quintesson Join Date: August 28, 2004 Location: the middle of Michigan Age: 43 Posts: 1,011	lol Larry. Funny you should mention that. They gave me my teaching assistant position for next semester. I'm TA'ing an ONLINE intro to anthropology course. I'm not even sure what that entails...

12-13-2006, 11:33 PM	#39
Lucern Quintesson Join Date: August 28, 2004 Location: the middle of Michigan Age: 43 Posts: 1,011	Sure Larry, shoot me a PM if you have a question, though intros to anthropology are usually easy-breezy. 3 weeks is kinda condensed though, so I guess they'll hit you with volume in any case. Oh, I'm a seasoned TA as of today (wrote, gave, and graded my first final), so I think I'm technically a pro now. Let me introduce you to my hourly rate

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