Mass shooting in Melbourne

[Downunda]

Originally posted by MagiK: Nice dodge of the issue that even with anti-gun laws there isnt a nation around that doesnt still have gun related deaths.

Ah, but the countries that do have stiff gun laws have far fewer deaths due to guns than those that don't [img]smile.gif[/img]

Gun Death - International Comparisons Gun deaths per 100,000 population -for the year indicated- Suicide Unintentional Homicide USA 4.08 -1999- 6.08 -1999- 0.42 -1999- Canada 0.54 -1999- 2.65 -1997- 0.15 -1997- Switzerland 0.50 -1999- 5.78 -1998- - Scotland 0.12 -1999- 0.27 -1999- - England/Wales 0.12 -1999/00- 0.22 -1999- 0.01 -1999- Japan 0.04* -1998- 0.04 -1995- <0.01 -1997- * Homicide & attempted homicide by handgun Data collected by Philip Alpers, Harvard Injury Control Research Center, and HELP Network Additional data can be found in Table A.10 of the World report on violence and health, published by the World Health Organization on 3rd October 2002.

Not too easy to read is it? I did have it set out nicer when I was typing it [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I know you can't believe everything on the internet and that statistics can be adjusted depending on what you want them to say but there's gotta be some truth to these. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-22-2002, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Downunda ]

[Donut]

Originally posted by Downunda: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Nice dodge of the issue that even with anti-gun laws there isnt a nation around that doesnt still have gun related deaths.

Ah, but the countries that do have stiff gun laws have far fewer deaths due to guns than those that don't [img]smile.gif[/img]

Gun Death - International Comparisons Gun deaths per 100,000 population -for the year indicated- Suicide Unintentional Homicide USA 4.08 -1999- 6.08 -1999- 0.42 -1999- Canada 0.54 -1999- 2.65 -1997- 0.15 -1997- Switzerland 0.50 -1999- 5.78 -1998- - Scotland 0.12 -1999- 0.27 -1999- - England/Wales 0.12 -1999/00- 0.22 -1999- 0.01 -1999- Japan 0.04* -1998- 0.04 -1995- <0.01 -1997- * Homicide & attempted homicide by handgun Data collected by Philip Alpers, Harvard Injury Control Research Center, and HELP Network Additional data can be found in Table A.10 of the World report on violence and health, published by the World Health Organization on 3rd October 2002.

Not too easy to read is it? I did have it set out nicer when I was typing it [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I know you can't believe everything on the internet and that statistics can be adjusted depending on what you want them to say but there's gotta be some truth to these. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]I'm afraid facts are wasted on the pro gun lobby Downunda. Guns don't kill people, people kill people and people with guns kill more people and kill them more easily.

[Leonis]

Originally posted by MagiK: Nice dodge of the issue that even with anti-gun laws there isnt a nation around that doesnt still have gun related deaths.

MagiK, you have still conveniently dodged the issue yourself that gun control is about HARM REDUCTION not harm removal altoghether.

Your argument is that people will always kill/hurt each other so why legeslate against the more efficient means to do so?

Ok. People will always speed, so why have speed limits?

People will always commit crimes so why have penalties and prisons? - it hasn't stopped them up till now.

People will always throw rubbish on the street so why have bins?

It's a defeatist attitude that holds absolutely no water. The fact is that you hide behind your guns. You lull yourself into a false sense of security that everything will be ok if you've got your guns.

That's weak man. I'd rather be strong of mind and body and come what may, not live in cowardice and fear needing a gun for protection.

Living with a gun is living on your knees, slaves to society which breeds violence upon violence.

Now this may seem a harsh viewpoint to some, but let me quantify that I don't expect US gun owners to hand over their guns before any laws have been made. But it will take gun owners to wise up and get behind reform, to see their world as a community and take real steps to make it safer.

[Downunda]

Couldn't have said it better myself Leo [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Brilliant post Leonis. Well said.

Why have bins....
Why have speed limits.....

Well said.

[Gandar]

A gun law is only as effective as its enforcement. A speed limit is only as effective as it's enforcement. If the speed limit is 55 and people still speed, will making the limit 45 reduce the number of speeders by almost 20% ? Get real!! Slapping a hefty fine on his ass will make him think about the benefits of obeying the speed limit. And if people ( if you can call such debris PEOPLE) that kill innocent people KNEW that WHEN they were caught, they would be put to death, not spend the rest of thier lives living off somebody elses hard work, they might find a different way of coping with thier anger.

[Davros]

Enters stage right - well said by Leonis and Donut - toodle pipski

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Gandar: A gun law is only as effective as its enforcement. A speed limit is only as effective as it's enforcement. If the speed limit is 55 and people still speed, will making the limit 45 reduce the number of speeders by almost 20% ? Get real!! Slapping a hefty fine on his ass will make him think about the benefits of obeying the speed limit. And if people ( if you can call such debris PEOPLE) that kill innocent people KNEW that WHEN they were caught, they would be put to death, not spend the rest of thier lives living off somebody elses hard work, they might find a different way of coping with thier anger.

Interesting point. In Australia many streets have recently been reduced from 60 kilometres per hour to 50kph. School zones are down to 40kph during certain hours.

This HAS had an impact on the way people are driving (most are doing 60 in those 50 zones instead of 70 or 80)

In my experience, the average person WANTS to be basically law abiding if those laws are beneficial to society. Yes there will always be those who break them, but cracking down on obvious problems does work.

As for the death penalty, I feel the same result would occur if LIFE meant LIFE...not 15 years or 8 for 'good behaviour'.