Wolves as Endangered Species

[Neb]

Well, Hunter, if wolves are "sharks with fur" how can it possibly be that several humans have actually LIVED with wolves for extended periods of time without being harmed, huh? Wouldn't they have been mercilessly attacked and devoured? Wolves do NOT attack humans unless it's for any of the reasons that I stated above.

Oh, and since we are apparently of the opinion that wolves should stay away from us lest we kill them, could we really complain if they ate those of us that ventured into their territory? It's pretty much the same idea.

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: All of these opinions about wolves are quite interesting. I have to ask, just how many of you have actualy spent more than a few hours at a time outdoors? I wonder what some of you would do if faced with a wolf and 6 of his friends all intent on making you into dinner? "Inteligent and noble" are pretty words, but when you cut through all the B.S. all wolves realy are is sharks with fur. Just like a shark a wolf will eat anything it can get its jaws around and it is the master of its domain.As for farm animals,your average cow is over 1200 pounds and quite capable of crushing a 200 pound wolf like a grape. If livestock is dumb enough to stand there and let itself be eaten then it pretty much deserves its fate. I am against hunting wolves just to hunt them. If you arent going to eat them then you shouldnt kill them, unless they are trying to kill you. Dont give me the you cant eat a wolf crap either. If Korean people can eat poodles and rotweilers you can damn well eat a wolf.

Hunter I have started three times to make a post and quit all three times because what I wrote was just too insulting to the people here. I think you hit the gist of my thoughts on this. I have been treed by wild dogs in the woods once...they were fluffy bunnies to what wolves would be like. Wolves are not a kind and gentle species of canine. There are still parts of siberia where they threaten entire vilages. Wolves are predators and carnivores, they are neither nice and cuddly nor overly friendly. People who raise wolves have frequently had toput them down even after they were raised in gentle loving environments....Wolves are NOT domesticated.

Originally posted by Neb: Well, Hunter, if wolves are "sharks with fur" how can it possibly be that several humans have actually LIVED with wolves for extended periods of time without being harmed, huh? Wouldn't they have been mercilessly attacked and devoured? Wolves do NOT attack humans unless it's for any of the reasons that I stated above. Oh, and since we are apparently of the opinion that wolves should stay away from us lest we kill them, could we really complain if they ate those of us that ventured into their territory? It's pretty much the same idea.

Names and addresses please Neb [img]smile.gif[/img] There have been some people who have lived in the woods and studied the wolves but not lived WITH the wolves. When I lived in Minnessotta I had the chance to talk to a guy who raises Hybrid puppies that are part wolf. He had to quit raising wolves due to his inability to breed the vicious streak out of them. He loved them dearly, and still does but he said he would never trust his daughter around them. I also know of some scientists who swim with great whites too..doesnt mean they are pussycats.

As for them killing us, well they are welcome to try but if they follow their best bet they will stick with hunting in packs and taking the weakest and sickest. It owuldnt pay for them to hunt humans unless they were unarmed. I don't think they should be eliminated, I actually like them. I just think we should not encourage their reintroduction into populated areas. Just becuase no one remembers that they used to deadly enough to cause us to hunt them to near extinction doesnt mena that they have changed.

Im also a bit irked at the doofuses who write current fiction and have a seriously bad habbit of anthropamorphizing animals, making them to appear more, intelligent, benign, peacful and lovable than they really are.

[ 10-18-2002, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

I haven't read through all the the posts here because frankly, killing wolves offends me and I'd rather not feel anger toward those of you who do. Whatever reasons you use to kill a wolf here in the U.S. are unjustified. Wolves ARE and endangered species here and what worse than to see them go to extinction for the greed and ignorance of man?

A wolf's vocalizations are the closest you can get to human in the animal world.
They are family units taking care of even the lowest in the heirarchy and to kill one hurts the whole family...in more ways than just one. They grieve the loss the same as you or I would grieve the loss of a close friend, sibling or parent.

They don't prey on "easy targets" first. As a matter of fact, a wolf will only invade a man's territory when its own has been so compromised that there is no other option.
I lived in AZ when 12 wolves were set loose in an attempt to repopulate the area with an animal that should have had a place there and saw in subsequent newscasts how ranchers were hunting them down and killing them "as a precaution to protect their assets". It is beyond shameful, beyond greedy and beyond ignorant.

I would not advice anyone killing wolves in the U.S. to "just keep their mouths shut about it", I would advise them to get an education and understand why they are as important as us on this planet.

Let me say "screw you" ahead of time to anyone who wants to quote me and make claims about man being more important than any other species on earth.

That's as nice as I can be about the subject.

[Neb]

Originally posted by MagiK: [As for them killing us, well they are welcome to try but if they follow their best bet they will stick with hunting in packs and taking the weakest and sickest. It owuldnt pay for them to hunt humans unless they were unarmed. I don't think they should be eliminated, I actually like them. I just think we should not encourage their reintroduction into populated areas. Just becuase no one remembers that they used to deadly enough to cause us to hunt them to near extinction doesnt mena that they have changed. I'm also a bit irked at the doofuses who write current fiction and have a seriously bad habbit of anthropamorphizing animals, making them to appear more, intelligent, benign, peacful and lovable than they really are.

I'm not getting this from fiction, MagiK. Feel like saying the the Discovery Channel plus just about every scientist and science magazine I've ever read about wolves are lying? This case is against you. And it's not the vicious WOLF streak your friend needs to breed out when breeding the hybrids. It's the vicious DOG streak.

[*\Conan/*]

Wolves are endangered but also predators.- I support various wildlife funds and this is one of them.
I couldn't begin to tell you what measures are in place for pack attacks on livestock but it would be common sense to protect your flocks or herds. Relocation is my vote. Shooting one for a trophy is a total different story. I hope those times are well over for any species of life.

Excuse me, MagiK, but wolves were nearly hunted to extinction to begin with for their furs and for man's ignorance in the way they invaded what was the wolve's territory to begin with. They are not vicious man-killers. A tiger is man's only natural enemy on land.

EDIT: and Neb is right...dog's have the potential to be more violent against man than wolves do.

[ 10-18-2002, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Moni ]

Originally posted by Neb: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: [As for them killing us, well they are welcome to try but if they follow their best bet they will stick with hunting in packs and taking the weakest and sickest. It owuldnt pay for them to hunt humans unless they were unarmed. I don't think they should be eliminated, I actually like them. I just think we should not encourage their reintroduction into populated areas. Just becuase no one remembers that they used to deadly enough to cause us to hunt them to near extinction doesnt mena that they have changed. I'm also a bit irked at the doofuses who write current fiction and have a seriously bad habbit of anthropamorphizing animals, making them to appear more, intelligent, benign, peacful and lovable than they really are.

I'm not getting this from fiction, MagiK. Feel like saying the the Discovery Channel plus just about every scientist and science magazine I've ever read about wolves are lying? This case is against you. And it's not the vicious WOLF streak your friend needs to breed out when breeding the hybrids. It's the vicious DOG streak.[/QUOTE]Umm first off [img]smile.gif[/img] he isn't a friend, he is some guy who raises hybrid wolves, he used to raise pure blood wolfs but they were too dangerous and he had to get rid of them. (got to take a toour because he was running a public business) I have seen the Discovery channel specials on wolfs, and yes I like wolves but they can be vicious..there are whole villages that have been wiped out in siberia when wolf packs attacked during particularly bad winters. Imnot saying hunt them to extinction, but I also don't like people making them sound as peacful and harmless as bunnies either. My comment about fiction writers was not aimed at you or your comments Neb [img]smile.gif[/img] Sorry if it looked that way. What Im talking about is that I have read some...rather non-mainstream literature ment for the local wicca and crystal groups and to hear them talk the wolves have a university out in the woods somewhere. I get irritated when people who have never really spent any timein the woods start publishing books on what animals are like, what hunters are like, how bad humans are and how good and noble animals are compared to humans....it just makesme want to barf is all but that really has nothing to do with what you were saying.

Originally posted by Moni: Excuse me, MagiK, but wolves were nearly hunted to extinction to begin with for their furs and for man's ignorance in the way they invaded what was the wolve's territory to begin with. They are not vicious man-killers. A tiger is man's only natural enemy on land. EDIT: and Neb is right...dog's have the potential to be more violent against man than wolves do.

Hi Moni I just sent you a PM.

Now about your post, Oh I know quite well what was going on with wolf hunting, the early people in this country were more interested in beaver, deer and bear pelt, wolf pelts were accepted but fetched much lower prices and so were never really eagerly sought. Wolves and other predators were too dangerous in the 15 and 1600's for hunters to really want to take the chance on going after them alone, the real slaughter didnt start till colonies were settled and the wolves were driven off or killed to protect the colonies. The early firearms were not accurate at all and tryingto defend yourself against a pack of wolves was not something you did when it took 2 minutes or more to reload. (try reloading a muzzleloader when all wrapped up to protect against the cold some times) There are to this day still problems with wolves in siberia attacking small villages and carrying off younger children. Im right now in the middle of a History class that happens to be all about the 1500-1877 in the New World. We have discussed in depth the fur trades and what was and was not a marketable commodity....Did you know that some beaver back then were 10 foot long?? those things were HUGE now days its hard to find one longer than three feet. I could not believe the size of those beasties.

[Neb]

Originally posted by MagiK: [there are whole villages that have been wiped out in siberia when wolf packs attacked during particularly bad winters. Imnot saying hunt them to extinction, but I also don't like people making them sound as peacful and harmless as bunnies either.

I never said they were peaceful bunnies [img]tongue.gif[/img] But see what you said? "Bad winters" humans can be every bit as vicious as wolves when starving, and as peaceful as bunnies when they've got a full belly [img]tongue.gif[/img] And why are the wolves starving? Because we wrecked their habitats! Guess we're only getting what's coming to us, then.

And I'm rather annoyed that you specified that "happy and nice" stuff as specified for Wicca groups. I happen to be a semi-Wiccan myself. Though I mainly follow the philosophy, and not the beliefs.