Prisoners rights...your thoughts.

Originally posted by Lox: I have seen a couple posts saying that prison is too cooshy (is that a word, and is it spelled right?) for prisoner; that we give them too many good things (tv, weight rooms, food). Myself, I have a very dark image of prison. Sure you may get clean clothes and access to the internet, but you also have gangs fighting for turf, guys getting shivved in the shower etc. Now I have no first hand experience (thank god) to back this up with, but I wonder if those of you who hold the "too cooshy" view have experience/evidence to back your view up. Does anyone here work in a prison and know what it is really like? How different is max security from min security? I know the Hollywood movies exagerate, but documentaries (which can still be slanted, but have to be a little more accurate than a complete fiction) I've seen are still pretty scary. Even assuming the cooshy view is accurate, I think I'd rather have my freedom.

Evidence? Yep 60 minutes did a series on prison perks, the History channel occasionally shows the life in prison, and it was a reported fact that one rapist/murder earned a law degree while servinge a life sentence and then put the parents of the little girl he brutally raped and murder into bankruptcy by filing a massive number of law suits....so, what do you think? maybe these people may just have it too easy? I didn't say there were no problems with prison life, I just don't see the need for taxpayers to foot the bill for luxuries.

[ 09-16-2002, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Moni, I think you misunderstand Dramnik when he says: "And of course such materials and peoples as I have encountered and learnt from, have considered prison something to rehabilitate people, not as a punishment, and something which ideally should be avoided wherever possible." Your reply post mentions health spa-type prisons. I think when Dramnik says prison is to "be avoided whenever possible," he means that we as a society should avoid using prison whenever possible. I don't think he means that prison in UK is so bad that everyone seeks to avoid it. 'natch

So what do we use instead of prisons? I think the Nurenburg trials outlawed gas chambers

[perk31]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Moni, I think you misunderstand Dramnik when he says: "And of course such materials and peoples as I have encountered and learnt from, have considered prison something to rehabilitate people, not as a punishment, and something which ideally should be avoided wherever possible." Your reply post mentions health spa-type prisons. I think when Dramnik says prison is to "be avoided whenever possible," he means that we as a society should avoid using prison whenever possible. I don't think he means that prison in UK is so bad that everyone seeks to avoid it. 'natch

So what do we use instead of prisons? I think the Nurenburg trials outlawed gas chambers [/QUOTE]Unfortunately, prisions will always be required, but the prospect of going to prison should elicit fear, and not because of the inmate. I have a family memeber who went to a state prison in California and based on his experience my boot camp was tougher. While I think opportunities to promote rehabilitation should be provided, prison should be a tough life. Maybe that would help reduce the repeat offenders. Felony offenders should have nothing beyond basic needs and put to work chain gang style. Let us not forget that these are the predators who had to be locked away for the public good.

[Moiraine]

Now, MagiK, a prisoner's access to Internet or any other 'luxury' as you put it, is not the same as yours and mine ! If you want to connect on Internet at 3 AM, you can, that's your life and you are in control of it. Though the guy in prison will have an Internet access only he is permitted. Even with all the 'luxuries' in the world, I wouldn't want to go to prison ever, because when the sun is shining outside, I want to be able to open the door and go for a walk ...

Is not the main purpose of prison privation of freedom ? Why should it be topped with privations on top of that - I believe the purpose is to tell "Guy, if you can't behave as a responsible adult, we'll treat you as a child until we believe you can safely have control of your life again".
It's not supposed to be about revenge - it's supposed to be about redemption ...

One thing about prison had me really mad a few years ago - there was that politician guy in Grenoble who had been giving the water market of Grenoble to his friends, so all people in Grenoble had payed for water a lot more than they should have. Anyway, that guy was condemned - and he had a special cell in prison. What ??? So if you had been a VIP and a thief, you stay a VIP in prison ??? Even if you have robbed a LOT more than the average scooter robber ?

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: he means that we as a society should avoid using prison whenever possible.

Well, I happen to agree with that particular sentiment! [img]graemlins/evillaughter2.gif[/img]

Not all prisons in the US are a cakewalk! Don't be mistaken! There are populations in prisons kept separate from one another because of the potential for escalated violence like the Arian Brotherhood, for instance. There is also the occasional "model" prisoner who decides to KO a guard, take his keys and start a riot while he tries to escape! (a friend of mine's nephew in OH was the guard, who coincidentally, got shot by his own gun as well). The potential for prison to be a bad place is always there...it all depends on individual behaviours, who you know, whose arse you'll kiss and how much money you have as to how safe a place it could be...or not.

[ 09-16-2002, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Moni ]

Originally posted by perk31: Unfortunately, prisions will always be required, but the prospect of going to prison should elicit fear, and not because of the inmate. I have a family memeber who went to a state prison in California and based on his experience my boot camp was tougher. While I think opportunities to promote rehabilitation should be provided, prison should be a tough life. Maybe that would help reduce the repeat offenders. Felony offenders should have nothing beyond basic needs and put to work chain gang style. Let us not forget that these are the predators who had to be locked away for the public good.

See now there is a GOOD idea. Chain Gangs, the prisoners could do a useful days work and in return earn some of those luxuries everyone else has to pay for. The could supplement or even replace illegal migrant workers in some states, do road repair etc [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Now, MagiK, a prisoner's access to Internet or any other 'luxury' as you put it, is not the same as yours and mine ! If you want to connect on Internet at 3 AM, you can, that's your life and you are in control of it. Though the guy in prison will have an Internet access only he is permitted. Even with all the 'luxuries' in the world, I wouldn't want to go to prison ever, because when the sun is shining outside, I want to be able to open the door and go for a walk ... Long time no see Moiraine [img]smile.gif[/img] Hi!? But in response to you, I can get up at 3am and use the internet because I did not go out and murder or rape some innocent victim, I did not cheat, steal or thieve against anyone else. I have my freedom because I live within the societal laws of the land. Do you not agree that sociopathic types should not be restricted? Is not the main purpose of prison privation of freedom ? Why should it be topped with privations on top of that - I believe the purpose is to tell "Guy, if you can't behave as a responsible adult, we'll treat you as a child until we believe you can safely have control of your life again". It's not supposed to be about revenge - it's supposed to be about redemption ... Well why heap privation on top of loss of freedom? because those things we are discussing cost other who work within the laws time and money and there is no logical reason to encourage criminal behaviour by rewarding it in any way...or at least that is my thought on the subject. Misdemeanor offenders are a different case, Im talking hard core felons who don't just have a minor behaviour problem. The fact is, some people are beyond redemption in this world. One thing about prison had me really mad a few years ago - there was that politician guy in Grenoble who had been giving the water market of Grenoble to his friends, so all people in Grenoble had payed for water a lot more than they should have. Anyway, that guy was condemned - and he had a special cell in prison. What ??? So if you had been a VIP and a thief, you stay a VIP in prison ??? Even if you have robbed a LOT more than the average scooter robber ? I am also against those kinds of prisons. I see no purpose for what we in the states call "Country Club" prisons for so called non-violent criminals such as the ENRON execs. They should just go to regular state or federal prisons just like everyone else.

here is another question...If the penalty for speeding were not just a $50 fine (or more) but also included a public flogging of say 10 whaks per offense, that we would have quite so many people zipping around above the posted speed limit?

[Timber Loftis]

Thank god that's not the fine for speeding, or we'd be inefficient as hell. Look, I'm all for traffic safety, but if cops actually enforce the speed limit it would suck. For starters, most odometers are only acturate to a certain % error - why do you think most cops allow you 5 miles over the limit. Second, there's human error - which is why most cops will watch you go by at 10 miles over.

God, though - flogging? A bit extreme, wouldn't you say. Some infractions are just that - INFRACTIONS. There are some minor wrongs you can do in society if you're just willing to pay the price. And for me, that's about $100 when I get caught and don't beat the ticket. I like to think of it as a "speeding tax."

Same thinking that applies to other business models. The gas station I buy my fuel at absolutely must, by law in many states, prevent the spill of hazardous substances and/or petroleum. Do they always do this properly - keep every oz. of gasoline and oil off the ground? Of course not - they just pay the small fine when they're caught, silly.

[Blade]

Well my take on the whole thing is that thay have way to many comforts and luxuries. Cable TV workout gyms free educations good food. Hay they live in more comfort then some collage students get the same eduaction and get better food then they serve at most public schools. They should be given the basics and mabe tought enough to have an AA degree but nothing elece after all after they get out of prison they probabably won't be able to get any jobs that require more than that because of their criminal backround.