Iraq stuffs up another hanging

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by PurpleXVI: Please don't conflate Al Qaeda or the insurgents with Islam in general. Islam that actually follows the Qu'ran has as much to do with Al Qaeda as Christianity had to do with Waco. Not all Muslims follow, advocate or even like Sharia law. Now, as for the beheading, the reason it's an insult is that it obviously shows no one even tried to give the man a dignified death. Don't you think Americans would take it differently whether I killed one or their soldiers in a gunfight or whether I cut open his corpse and used it as a toilet afterwards?

Peaceful good citizen(by western standards) muslims are that way in spite of their religion, not because of it. Sharia is the system of laws dictated by mohammed to govern his empire based either on his direct word, his example, the koran, hadiths (mohammed's biographies), or sunna (islamic tradition, based primarily off of mohammed's example). Any muslim that dislikes sharia is no muslim at all, and if they proclaimed it at almost any mosque would either be barred as a heretic and infidel, or worse killed as an apostate. Do some reading, those who turn most fervently to "radical" islam are those who get more islam, who study it at great length, take a look at the London bombers, several of them were always radicalized, but most began studying islam more seriously making it a larger part of their life, until it was the only part of their life, and they felt that murdering dozens of innocents and injuring hundreds more was a moral act, because it was based on the instructions of their religion's founder.

Show me any middle eastern country that isn't a shithole and I'll move there, how about Kuwait, where I served for a year, if you're not a muslim and more specifically a Kuwaiti muslim, forget owning property, a car, a business, etc. It is arguably the most westernized country in the middle east and the most modern. It's still a shithole by the standards of anyone I met there (Brit's Aussies, Americans from all over the country, even compared to other assignments like Korea during the spring melt)

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by PurpleXVI: If we begin to say: "Well, they started it, so we're allowed to do the same!" then we lose all moral high ground, and we'll essentially be no better than them.

So we shouldn't have hung the nazi's when we liberated the concentration camps, because obviously it means MacArthur, Bradley, et al were no better than the guys running the camps? There is evil in the world, and to equate destroying evil with being evil serves no one and destroys any ground to work from at all. Moral equivalence be damned.

[PurpleXVI]

Your ability to read be damned, apparently. I'm sorry to say it so bluntly, but that's not what I said at all.

I suggested that their executions be conducted with care and dignity, rather than jeering and ridiculous screw-ups like this. I'm quite sure that no one was throwing stuff at the Nazi high-ups when they were hung for their crimes against humanity.

It's possible to destroy evil in a humane manner. The moment you start taking a few seconds to shoot them in the balls before you shoot them in the head, that's when you're as evil as them. The moment when you point out everyone on their side of the border as being "evil" and nerve gas them all to get the few ones you know are evil, that's when you're as evil as them.

I also suggest you learn something about Islam. Sharia is not dictated by Mohammed and is not part of the Qu'ran. End of story, that's a fact and there's no need to take it any further than that.

Any man who obsesses about his religion and puts it ahead of everything is likely to become a madman and a fanatic. The same goes for a political philosophy. Islam is not some sort of insidious nerve-poison that brings madness if you're exposed to lots of it. Any religion, however, if you put it ahead of everything else in the world, is likely to do more harm than good. There are plenty of Islamic scholars(People who research the Qu'ran, learn it, interpret it, study it.) who are sensible men. Who do not spread fanaticism and hatred against the West.

As for the Muslim countries, maybe you're forgetting that the West has been screwing them over for decades, and then some? They've always been trapped in the middle of power play. And if you want to do it like that, show me any Christian country in the middle ages that wasn't a shithole compared to most of the Muslim countries? It all goes in cycles. The West has been paying for wars in the Middle East and endorsing dictators there. The USSR screwed over the 'Stans hard. Many of South East Asia's Muslim countries are exploited as cheap labour and never given a chance to grow properly.

And with that, I'm gone from this debate. The moment you start equating all Muslims with Sharia law and terrorism, there's nothing there for me to argue with, just a big empty hole for me to throw my words into.

[Timber Loftis]

News flash -- it's not that rare to behead someone during a hanging.

Here's some wikieality on it for you:

William Marwood (who was often quoted as saying "Calcraft hanged them, I execute them"), introduced the "long drop". Marwood realised that each person required a different drop, based on the prisoner's weight, which would dislocate the cervical vertebrae resulting in "instantaneous" death. By a process of (sometimes grisly) experimentation it was discovered that an energy of 1260 foot pounds (1710 joules) would have the desired effect, so the required drop was determined by dividing this figure by the weight of the prisoner: a person weighing 112 pounds would be executed by a drop of 11.25 feet. The basic formula would be refined as time went on to take account of the prisoner's age, stature, and physical condition, but there were some early mistakes when too great a drop was provided and a decapitation resulted. Marwood also experimented with the positioning of the knot, and discovered that placing it under the left ear or under the angle of the left jaw would jerk the head backwards at the end of the drop and instantly sever the spinal cord and dislocate the cervical vertebrae. The development of swift and "clean" methods of hanging were welcomed by prison governors and staff, who were required to witness executions at close distance after the abolition of public executions in 1868.

[ 01-31-2007, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Hivetyrant]

lol@Glenn Beck.

I totally agree with TL's point of view here, these guys are R-tards and should be shot....imo

Actually, being shot would be too painless and quick.

EDIT: At least the extremists

[ 02-02-2007, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Hivetyrant ]