France warns about blocking resolution on Iraq war

[Ronn_Bman]

Mark, I'm sure Moiraine will appreciate that explanation, and accept your apology, and I hope she'll accept mine for anything offensive I may have said.

Remember, there's no need to back-pedal here. Something is either worth saying, or it isn't.

People would much rather see you stand with your statements, whatever they might be, than see you try to disguise it, after the fact, by saying others misunderstood what you meant.

It was very nice of you, and extremely honest, to post that.
[img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img]

[ 01-24-2003, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Mark, I'm sure Moiraine will appreciate that explanation, and accept your apology, and I hope she'll accept mine for anything offensive I may have said. Remember, there's no need to back-pedal here. Something is either worth saying, or it isn't. People would much rather see you stand with your statements, whatever they might be, than see you try to disguise it, after the fact, by saying others misunderstood what you meant. It was very nice of you, and extremely honest, to post that. [img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img]

Good to see that chivalry among political rivals isn't dead

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Moiraine: I am angry at the paternalism running through this thread. During the two years I have been on IW, I have NEVER bashed the U.S. Because I respected the U.S. people there. Now, seeing that all you get is a light pat on the head when bashing other people's countries in the back, why could't I play too ? Apparently it is funny.

Indeed, an overdose of testosterone is a dangerous thing [img]smile.gif[/img] Truth is, most people at IW like and respect both you and the nation of France (I'll be there on holiday in late March! YEAH!!!! [img]smile.gif[/img] ). French diplomatic policy seems to have frustrated many Americans who simply wish to 'get on with it' in Iraq, so to speak. Their lack of self control perhaps shows through in some of their less-than-gentlemanly comments about French people as a whole, but no one means you any personal disrespect. I don't know you all that well personally, but over the past year that I've been at IW I've read alot of your posts and you are certainly one of IW's 'speakers of wisdom' [img]smile.gif[/img] Everyone gets angry, it's fair enough, but sometimes you just have to take an insult on the chin in order to prevent things spiralling out of hand. I hope that as your anger dies down you feel a little better about the war forum.

[Djinn Raffo]

skywalker i would like to say that your post just above there was very nice and i believe you exactly what you say. And i would like to say it was a very good thing of you to do to and gutsy and honourable to. Very nice.

And this is coming from me.. someone who more often than naught says much stupid things without thinking.. yes it's true.. i have and do all the time it seems..

Moiraine.. i would like to just echo what The Heirophant said. He put it very better than i ever could and to add only to his eloquence Vive le France [img]smile.gif[/img]

[skywalker]

My wife and I visited Paris this past Fall and I have to say it was the greatest 2 weeks we've ever spent. I've never seen so many excellent people. The French are friendly and warm. And Paris is a magnificent city too!

Mark

[Luvian]

I'll take this opportunity to remind you all that when you start feeling angry, it's best to NOT reply.

It's best to relax a little, maybe go take a walk. Then, when you are back to normal, it's time to go reply.

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Skunk: Memnoch (in another thread) referred to my viewpoints as "unpopular and ...probably ill-informed and naive" - even that is not a personal attack (by my standards) - which is a lot stronger than anything that has been said on this thread.

That's right, mate, and I'm glad you see it that way - shows you've got a thick skin, anyway. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Also, as you have mentioned, there is a difference between attacking someone personally and criticizing their viewpoint. It's only in honest debate that we learn more about a) our own viewpoint; and b) the other person's viewpoint.

This type of forum, with passions and emotions running high, it's easy to see people and people's actions either on your side or the other side. In general moderators try and stay out of these debates as much as we can - I personally stay out of them, I might put in my 2c now and then but I stay out of debating/arguing - but we certainly don't allow our personal feelings to interfere with forum policies. At the end of the day our word is law when it comes to forum policies - but our personal viewpoints on this or that topic certainly aren't. For all you know I could be a damn fool when it comes to being right or wrong about North Korea. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Everyone gets a fair hearing here - be they liberal, warmonger, peacenik or whatever they wish to call themselves - as long as their hearts are true, their interest is in gaining knowledge through discussion and they're not fishing for bites. This is something I'm VERY good at finding out - years of practice and all that. BUT we draw the line at al-Qaeda supporters - that edict comes from above and I happen to agree with it.

Moiraine, next time you see a thread that really makes your blood boil, get up off the PC and go for a walk. If you come back half and hour later and it still makes your blood boil, email me and I'll check it out.

Have fun, fellas - and be prepared to shake hands with each other at the end of the day. It's only a forum, after all.

[ 01-25-2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Dreamer128]

Schroder, during the ellections, has promised that Germany will not support the war in Iraq. Should he break that vow, its doubtfull he'll get re-ellected...

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: Schroder, during the ellections, has promised that Germany will not support the war in Iraq. Should he break that vow, its doubtfull he'll get re-ellected...

Indeed.
I didn't post this topic to give people the opportunity to go out and bash France; this topic is only an example of the opinions of several European countries on the possible War on Iraq, including France and Germany. As far as I know, only the Government in the UK and Italy are supporting the the US completely on this matter (much to the dismay of many of its citizens, btw).
I'd only wish the Government in my country had half the guts France and Germany have shown. Thankfully, the (rightwinged) Government which decided to almost blindly support the US has already fallen a few months back, and it seems we'll be getting a more leftish Government again, with a bit of luck.

[johnny]

Yeah, well too bad for you Balkenende won again, no leftwinged government, thank goodness. And he also backs up the US, like he should. France and Germany have guts ? You call that guts ? I say they are walking away from their responsebilities, and act like austridges.