Should the bombs stop for the Islamic holy month in november?

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Yorick: The Pakistani and Egyptian governments would be the ones to listen to on that matter as they'd be the ones most affected if there's a substancial shift in public opinion against support for the Coalitions military action. I know China and some Asian nations were worried about the effect plowing through Ramadan would have in the Islamic Asian nations (non Arabic) of Indonesia and Malaysia. The Aussie embassy was given a hoax anthrax scare in Kuala Lumpur I believe. Indonesia, the worlds largest Islamic nation of 180 million+ people is right next door to Australia.

I definately see where you are coming from. I guess the best thing to do is ti cease fire. Resume after their holiday. Then if they still don't like us, we can definately say that we aren't to blame.

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LH Member


"I've had it up to here, listening to a small segment of people try to put down America! America's the greatest land on Earth, and we oughta be proud of what we have! I'm proud of America, I'm proud of our people, and I'm gonna prove it. We're American and DAMN proud of it! Frankly I'm getting a little ticked off...go ta ****"... Dink (if anyone knows who originally said this, please let me know!)

[Prime2U]

Originally posted by Yorick: The Pakistani and Egyptian governments would be the ones to listen to on that matter as they'd be the ones most affected if there's a substancial shift in public opinion against support for the Coalitions military action. I know China and some Asian nations were worried about the effect plowing through Ramadan would have in the Islamic Asian nations (non Arabic) of Indonesia and Malaysia. The Aussie embassy was given a hoax anthrax scare in Kuala Lumpur I believe. Indonesia, the worlds largest Islamic nation of 180 million+ people is right next door to Australia.

Sounds like what I said Although as I also pointed out, I doubt that aid can be reestablished in that amount of time to any extent, so the reprieve would only allow the Afghan peoples to go hungry a while longer. I think we should get the opinions of other Muslim nations on the issue, on whether it would be better to end the attacks and resume aid as quickly as possible, or to shear off for the holiday and let the nation sit, and possibly starve.

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"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans." - Lennon

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Prime2U: Sounds like what I said Although as I also pointed out, I doubt that aid can be reestablished in that amount of time to any extent, so the reprieve would only allow the Afghan peoples to go hungry a while longer. I think we should get the opinions of other Muslim nations on the issue, on whether it would be better to end the attacks and resume aid as quickly as possible, or to shear off for the holiday and let the nation sit, and possibly starve.

Imo, although, as I said earlier in this thread, I do not think they would stop for a christian holiday, I believe Yorick is correct in this and the bombing SHOULD be stoppped for Ramadan - for two reasons - 1) to deliver as much food and shelter and medical aid we can over that month to the Afghani civilians. They are in a dire situation. 2)If we don't, we lose the support of other Muslim nations and that could be disastrous.

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Proud to be Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

[Ryanamur]

Well, here we go, this will surprise many but I don't think that the bombing should stop.

First of all, yes, it's a Muslim holiday. SO?!?!?!, War is war people, a battle doesn't stop for you to pray. A battle stops when you're ready to sign on a piece of paper that you'll do whatever the winner says you'll do. Not before!

Strategicly speaking, this would give the Taliban a whole month to regroup and reorganize their defenses. That's not a good idea considering that the Pentagon is actually surprised that they're still around.

EDIT: I also forgot that the Northern Alliance (our so called Allies in Afghanistan) want to mount an offensive before winter. That means that if we want them to succede, we have to provide them strategic and tactical bombing support. Bush wants the Taliban out. He must continue the fighting if he wants to succeed quickly (well, quicker than if you stop).
This, is comming from a guy who doesn't support the idea of bombing Afghanistan or any other country. However, I do recognize that the USA already started the bombing (so essentially, in my eyes, commited a mistake) and unfortunately, they must take it to it's natural end.

BTW: unless I'm mistaking there was battle over the Christmass holiday during WWII. The battle of the Ardennes being one of them. If I'm not mistaking, Patton freed Bastogne (sp), a small town where roughly 11,000 soldiers from the 101 were surrounded by Germans, on December 26th, 1944. That's the battle where the colonel in charge of the 101 told the German general "Nuts" when he was asked to surrender

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I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-25-2001).]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Ryanamur: Well, here we go, this will surprise many but I don't think that the bombing should stop.

I must admit, I am surprised at this being your answer

I agree the bombing should not be stopped simply for the fact that you can't stop in the middle of a war and take a month off. We have to work with our Muslim allies to help them understand, but as said previously...

Originally posted by Bullvye: ...Mohammed waged war in 600 A.D. during Rhamidad? As did Iran's leader in the 80's against Iraq. What should we do? Should we show the world that we are not at war with Islam by respecting this holy month? Or will that send a different message? I've heard it said by our Secretary of Defence that BECAUSE this NOT a "holy war", or a "war against Islam" is precisely why we shouldn't and wont stop the fight against terrorism

Obviously, what Muslims have done during their religious events, will be interpreted quite differently than the actions the coalition takes during Ramadan. That's why it's important to point this out to our Muslim partners, so they can lend Islamic "legitimacy".

As to the occassions in WWI when Allied and Axis forces stopped fighting on Christmas Day, it was an impromtu, mutual ceasefire and very short, only lasting a few hours to a day. It did not happen everywhere and did not happen every year during the war.(as evidenced by a previous post in this thread).

Keep in mind, once the Taliban is ousted, the Afghany people will be fed, and cared for in a way they never have been before if the promises from the international community are true. Why didn't we do this after the Soviets left? We screwed up.

People who were against the bombing to start with will, of course, think it should be stopped, but I do find the views of those in favor of the bombing campaign who want to stop very interesting.

For those who say American's are insensitive, imagine any other nation, at any time in history giving consideration to people's religious beliefs in regard to military action.

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"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

[This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-25-2001).]

[Ryanamur]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: People who were against the bombing to start with will, of course, think it should be stopped...

Ehem!

Mind you, I'm looking at it from a military strategist point of view. I'm concient that this will create havoc in the Muslim world but Bush wanted a war, he better be prepared to fight it because the other side will be if he stops now!

This as nothing to do with respect. It's pure strategy. Why would you want to give your ennemy the opportunity to reorganize himself. It's ludicrus and counter productive!

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I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Ryanamur: Ehem! Mind you, I'm looking at it from a military strategist point of view. I'm concient that this will create havoc in the Muslim world but Bush wanted a war, he better be prepared to fight it because the other side will be if he stops now! This as nothing to do with respect. It's pure strategy. Why would you want to give your ennemy the opportunity to reorganize himself. It's ludicrus and counter productive!

You being the exception to the "rule", imagine that

I think we're beginning to know each other too well because I actually considered including a disclaimer for you.



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"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Liliara: I guess if I were really pushed, I would say to keep going, don't let up and give them the chance to regroup. After all, if we are going to stop now, why did we even start? Why not have put it off until after in the first place?

I guess it all depends on whether the military advantage surpasses the diplomatic cost. I don't think it does. From a moral perspective I think they should stop, since I doubt if it will affect the campaign much. It looks like there will be troops there for the winter anyway.

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[Ryanamur]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: You being the exception to the "rule", imagine that I think we're beginning to know each other too well because I actually considered including a disclaimer for you.

See, I can be rational at times



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I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

As I recall it is our Islamic supporters (Pakistan, Egypyt, ect.) that have voiced concern of bombing during a holy time. The coalition agianst terrorism could lose some strategic ground if they stopped bombing, but may lose support from allies in the region if they do continue. So the real question is whats more important? Keeping military pressure on the talibon or sustaining good relations with the non-terrorists Muslim nations/people.

Are there any Muslims here with a perspective on this?