The Bush Revolution

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Azred: Are we certain that China conducts itself thusly? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

They would have invaded Taiwan long ago if they did not.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by John D Harris: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: You're completely missing the point.

WHAT POINT? Yo, you have switched, fipped, flopped, and spun your way around. You bring up a point when asked questions about your point, and how you point works you move, dodge, slide to something totally differant. When your questions are answered you flee to the 'ole you are missing the point.

Answer the questions I asked you earlier as I asked them, I used plain simple words straight to the point no flipping/flopping/ dodging/twisting/turning. I answered your questions, and I did so with statements not another question. Answering a question with a question is an arguement trick that only works if the person you are trying to pull that on is afraid to answer, I ain't afraid of man nor beast. [/QUOTE]I have presented a consistent argument. I cannot help your perception of it. I have not flip flopped no matter how much you suggest otherwise. it is your perception that is out of whack, which is why I said you've missed the point.

As for not answering your questions, they were irrelevent. The type of question is important. It's like asking me "how did God begin". It presupposes I believe God has an origin, therefore I cannot answer the question because I don't believe the presupposed belief. Comprende?

[ 11-19-2004, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by John D Harris: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: You're completely missing the point.

WHAT POINT? Yo, you have switched, fipped, flopped, and spun your way around. You bring up a point when asked questions about your point, and how you point works you move, dodge, slide to something totally differant. When your questions are answered you flee to the 'ole you are missing the point.

Answer the questions I asked you earlier as I asked them, I used plain simple words straight to the point no flipping/flopping/ dodging/twisting/turning. I answered your questions, and I did so with statements not another question. Answering a question with a question is an arguement trick that only works if the person you are trying to pull that on is afraid to answer, I ain't afraid of man nor beast. [/QUOTE]I have presented a consistent argument. I cannot help your perception of it. I have not flip flopped no matter how much you suggest otherwise. it is your perception that is out of whack, which is why I said you've missed the point.

As for not answering your questions, they were irrelevent. The type of question is important. It's like asking me "how did God begin". It presupposes I believe God has an origin, therefore I cannot answer the question because I don't believe the presupposed belief. Comprende? [/QUOTE]So you have neither the Manners nor the courtisy(sp?) to engage in a conversation. You throw out terms like arrogant, yet you are the one that decides if a question asked by others are relevent or not. Who gave you the right to decide that? If your point can't handle some questions that's your problem not mine.

Yes you have flipped flopped, the first point you tried to make was the rest of the world has monetary and polictal influence over the USA election, I say it is the US votes that count. You then procede to back up your point by asking questions about how money is raised in order to get US VOTES, NOT one single thing to back up why the citizens of another country should have any "say" over what goes on in a totaly seperate country. You do understand we are talking about serperate countries each with their own gov't and method of coming power?

You are trying to equate feelings and emotion to reality, the fact is the entire world can vote for anybody they want to, but the winner of the USA Presidental elcetion will be the person that gets 1 over the majority of the electorial college vote from the USA, the rest of the world doesn't matter in the US elections. Guess what the USA doesn't matter in the elections of the rest of the world. That is why we have soveriegn countries, you do know what soveriegn means? Each is seperate, and independant each decides for it's self. AND yes the Afghanis decided for themselves who they would elect, you can't provide one single shread of eveidence that US citizens voted in the Afghanistan election held a few weeks ago! Absent of any evidence your point is null and void.

You try to equate the USA to "New Rome" then talk about Providentals(sp?), but your thesis ignors the reality of what a providence is. To be a providence you would have to be under the USA's Control the USA would decide who run your country. Remember the man the washed his hands in Christ's trial? Was he chosen by the Juedeans or by ROME? He was chosing by ROME because Jueda was a providence of ROME. Show me one soveriegn country that is a providence of the USA!

[Yorick]

Rome had provinces and protectorates.
America has provinces and protectorates.

Australia is an American protectorate.
Iraq and Puerto Rico are provinces won in war.

Tasmania had it's sovereignty overriden when it used it's sovereign powers as a state of Australia to enact laws that were inconsistent with American drug law policy. America ran roughshod over Tasmania.

Maybe you should listen to the "provincials" before deciding America is not an empire. Ever heard of "anti-imperialism?"

The USA also directly interfered with the last Australian election. I was hoping Howard would win, and he won anyway, but the interference of the Americans against Latham had me incensed.

As far as Americans by virtue of it being a democracy interfering in the rulership of Afgahnistan, Iraq, and Panama... isn't it obvious John!!!!!!! Go and read it for yourself. I'm not here to teach you. If you can't be bothered waking up to the reality of what your country is doing in the world I can't be bothered talking to you about it.

Adios.

[Yorick]

John... there is a difference between what is SAID and what actually IS.

Let's look at Taiwan.

China SAYS Taiwan is not independent, yet the reality is Taiwan is independent from China in all but name. For all intents and purposes it acts outside Beijings leadership.

The reverse occurs with many countries allied or protected by America. You need to understand what exactly a "sphere of influence" is. It is the amount a nation can go against the direct wishes of another nation. Though independent in name, the allied nation loses independence in areas like foreign policy, and certain economic areas in exchange for the continued "protection.

Malaysia for example, is an example of a "protectorate" that fell under the British Empire. As I said, Rome had many protectorates, many of which came under direct control at later dates. The aforementioned Judaea started out as a protectorate. Notice how Herod was King when Jesus was born, but how Pilate was governor when he died. Only the protectorate of Galilee continued to have a "King" Herod Antipas.

If Australians had decided to embrace a communist government during the cold war, you can bet your bottom dollar the American empire would have overthrown it. That is not true independence.

[Timber Loftis]

Yorick, you're painting with too broad of a brush. Using WTO trading rules to attack laws passed in other countries is a two-way street. Unless you want to say that the US is a protectorate of the UK since it lost some WTO trading cases and had to change its own national law. Note that the tax code just saw its largest re-write since Reagan, an avalanche started by one very big WTO mandate snowball.

And while the Kerry sisters may have visited Austrailia, the Aussies and everyone in the known world chimed in on the US election. We were blogged and bombarded to death with informational overload from the 4 corners of the globe. French and German and Chinese banks and newspapers announced positions on who should win -- many for the first time ever.

Puerto Rico, yes, is a terroritory, is quite happy that way, and can flip to being a state basically when they want.

Iraq.... well, I won't go into that except to say we all want the hell out of there at the end of the day. The last thing we want is a lasting US presence there. In fact, if they do become free people, chances are that in the long run they'll end up clamoring into the EU along with Turkey.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Yorick, you're painting with too broad of a brush. Using WTO trading rules to attack laws passed in other countries is a two-way street. Unless you want to say that the US is a protectorate of the UK since it lost some WTO trading cases and had to change its own national law. Note that the tax code just saw its largest re-write since Reagan, an avalanche started by one very big WTO mandate snowball. And while the Kerry sisters may have visited Austrailia, the Aussies and everyone in the known world chimed in on the US election. We were blogged and bombarded to death with informational overload from the 4 corners of the globe. French and German and Chinese banks and newspapers announced positions on who should win -- many for the first time ever.

I was saying to John the influence was a two way street. I was using the American influence because John was citing that as nonexistent, and thus proof it was nonexistent into America. Provincials can influence politics. Rome, Russia and Germany all had leaders born outside the homeland for example.

Puerto Rico, yes, is a terroritory, is quite happy that way, and can flip to being a state basically when they want.

Until they do, they remain a territory without parliamentary representation in America, that was won in a war against Spain.

Iraq.... well, I won't go into that except to say we all want the hell out of there at the end of the day. The last thing we want is a lasting US presence there. In fact, if they do become free people, chances are that in the long run they'll end up clamoring into the EU along with Turkey.

Agreed.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Yorick: I was saying to John the influence was a two way street. I was using the American influence because John was citing that as nonexistent, and thus proof it was nonexistent into America. Provincials can influence politics. Rome, Russia and Germany all had leaders born outside the homeland for example.

Yorick, I Clearly wrote Influeneces are influences, and acknowledged there are influences, what part of that is the same or equates to American influence was nonexistent? Show me where I cited that!!! You can't do it!! You can show me and anybody else reading this piss'n contest where I wrote I as a citizen of the USA have no "say" in other countries. "Say" and influenece are not the same thing one is open and final the other is presuasion(sp?)One is acctually puting the mark on the piece of paper, or what ever, the other is trying to get those that put the mark on the piece of paper to mark it the way you want. NOT THE SAME THING

[Q]

(T.L.) Puerto Rico, yes, is a terroritory, is quite happy that way, and can flip to being a state basically when they want.[/Q]

(Yorick)Until they do, they remain a territory without parliamentary representation in America, that was won in a war against Spain.

Correct, and subject to the laws of the USA, now show me where your native country is subject to the laws of the USA. Show me that if you can! Show me where the citizens living in Australia, NOT doing any bussiness in or with the USA pay USA income tax!But you can't there goes your providence arguement.

(T.L.)Iraq.... well, I won't go into that except to say we all want the hell out of there at the end of the day. The last thing we want is a lasting US presence there. In fact, if they do become free people, chances are that in the long run they'll end up clamoring into the EU along with Turkey.

Agreed. [/QB][/QUOTE] Agreed T.L. nobody wants the USA to be there longer then it has to be.

[Khazadman Risen]

Once again, why should we care what the world thinks? You may not have noticed but they don't care what we think.

And Europe will never be any kind of threat, economically or militarily. I am still of the opinion that the EU will fail in the end. Too many socialists.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Khazadman Risen: Once again, why should we care what the world thinks? You may not have noticed but they don't care what we think. And Europe will never be any kind of threat, economically or militarily. I am still of the opinion that the EU will fail in the end. Too many socialists.

Could you answer these questions.

1.Which out of Europe and America has the stronger currency?
2.Which out of Europe and America has the larger population?
3.Out of Europe and America who has historically been the more imperialistic, militaristic, colonial and expansionistic?

When you've answered those questions correctly come back and tell me Europe will never be a threat to America.

Perhaps you could look at Rome in the years before it fell and wonder how many citizens believed that Persia and the Germanics would "never be a threat".