Canadians to Bush: Hope You Lose, Eh

[Rokenn]

The latest polls show Kerry uprooting the Shrub. Edwards and Clark are within the margin of error of the same poll. So regardless of who gets it at this point it's a real horse race.

This is assuming there is no 'October Surprise'

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: Even without insurance, hospitals still have to treat the patient. . . . . But when these same people come back to the ER for another visit, we have a mandatory obligation to see them and treat their injury or illness to the best of our ability.

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Yeah, I know. I dated a pediatrician's daughter in rural KY -- he had the same issue with indigent parents and their children.

However, hospitals do routinely file collections actions against those too poor to pay the hospital bill. A friend's wife had pregnancy complications shortly after he was out of law school (no insurance). The had a $10K bill pressing on their head for years. Imagine if he'd been a factory worker or burger-flipper instead of an attorney -- he'd still be under the thumb of the debt. Not to mention further debt for any other medical work needed. It's not the indigent who really suffer under this system, it's the "not quite poor enough" folks that make up the lower middle class.

[Timber Loftis]

I don't think anyone can beat the President. Which is why I was for Dean. I was hoping he'd provide the Democratic party with a much-needed enema so it'd be healthy come 2008.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: So I will take our expensive health care system over the socialized, free alternative any day of the week.

You are aware that we also have a private healthcare system as well Cerek, which runs in tandem with the NHS? No one who has the money or has health insurance need wait for even the most trivial procedure.

I can't comment on the Canadian system but rather than rely on anecdotal evidence as you have done I can tell you that the "socialized" health service in the UK is far from free. The benefit is that it is free "at point of use".

And we don't vet people before we treat them so you would get all the treatment and aftercare that you needed with your crohn's.

I have experienced many facets of the NHS over the past couple of years. From births to terminal illnesses. It's far from perfect, but I wouldn't swap it for anything else.

One comment about the French system - it does work well because it's so well resourced. But remember the failings on the French Social Services during the summer which contributed to the deaths of thousands. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

[ 02-05-2004, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]

[Yorick]

Well I like Canadians, Canada and their way of doing things. I have numerous Canadian friends, one Canadian cousin, and one Canadian that I dated. 100% of the Canadians I know are seriously good people.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: So I will take our expensive health care system over the socialized, free alternative any day of the week.

You are aware that we also have a private healthcare system as well Cerek, which runs in tandem with the NHS? No one who has the money or has health insurance need wait for even the most trivial procedure.

I can't comment on the Canadian system but rather than rely on anecdotal evidence as you have done I can tell you that the "socialized" health service in the UK is far from free. The benefit is that it is free "at point of use".

And we don't vet people before we treat them so you would get all the treatment and aftercare that you needed with your crohn's.

I have experienced many facets of the NHS over the past couple of years. From births to terminal illnesses. It's far from perfect, but I wouldn't swap it for anything else.

One comment about the French system - it does work well because it's so well resourced. But remember the failings on the French Social Services during the summer which contributed to the deaths of thousands. You pays your money and you takes your choice. [/QUOTE]Australia has private and National health care also Fred.

Put simply, the American health system is the worst in the world. It was the single most distressing part about moving here.

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: So I will take our expensive health care system over the socialized, free alternative any day of the week.

You are aware that we also have a private healthcare system as well Cerek, which runs in tandem with the NHS? No one who has the money or has health insurance need wait for even the most trivial procedure.

I can't comment on the Canadian system but rather than rely on anecdotal evidence as you have done I can tell you that the "socialized" health service in the UK is far from free. The benefit is that it is free "at point of use".

And we don't vet people before we treat them so you would get all the treatment and aftercare that you needed with your crohn's.

I have experienced many facets of the NHS over the past couple of years. From births to terminal illnesses. It's far from perfect, but I wouldn't swap it for anything else.

One comment about the French system - it does work well because it's so well resourced. But remember the failings on the French Social Services during the summer which contributed to the deaths of thousands. You pays your money and you takes your choice. [/QUOTE]Private Health care systems are bad from a social justice perspective in that some people can't afford it but they're also extremely bad from everyone elses perspective, yet no one really realises it. Most private health care systems, the US is a good example, cost about 3-4 times as much per person per year as the UK system does, yet the US is actually less healthy for all of that money.

The reason the French system is best in the world and ours has problems with waiting lists is that they aren't afraid to spend money on it. We hear a lot about how much of a drain the NHS is on the public purse but in reality we spend less on health care than pretty much any other developed nation. If we spent as much as france does, which is still only a fraction of what the US spends per person, we'd be laughing.

Anyway, private health care systems get beaten in every area hands down by public ones with the exception of consumer choice. I'm happy to lose consumer choice in this area as consumers aren't equipped to choose in this particular market anyway. The average consumer doesn't know if a doctor is good or not and doesn't know if the treatment course prescribed is the right one. Thats just life, no system will change that yet the private system assumes it isn't true. Health care cannot be treated just like any other good as it has fundamental differences from most goods that mean a market will always be inefficient.

[ 02-07-2004, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: Barry the Sprout ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: However, hospitals do routinely file collections actions against those too poor to pay the hospital bill.

That happened to me the first year I was here. I went to see a doctor. I told them I had no insurance, so they made me pay BEFORE I got treated. They would have refused me otherwise.

However, once in there, the doctor suggested a throat camera thingey. He failed to tell me, that when I got out, they'd hit me with an ADDITIONAL hefty bill I had no way of paying. Actually, the first I knew of this bill was when I got phone calls from the hospital, and then calls from collection agents. For all I know my credit rating is ruined before I even got one.

[ 02-07-2004, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Grojlach]

On a similar note, how many Americans would be able to even name the Canadian Prime Minister? Hint: Canada has recently changed theirs.

And something I came across elsewhere, seems appropriate:

WOULD YOU VOTE FOR CANADA'S PRIME MINISTER? WHO? 46% CANADA? 20% HOW DO I USE THIS VOTING MACHINE? 30% PAT BUCHANAN 4%

[Djinn Raffo]

Who wins by default?