Elminster vs Gandalf vs Raistlin Majere

[Jerr Conner]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: Well, Luvian, I'm going to have to disagree with you on one point. It is not IMPOSSIBLE to kill a god in AD&D (especially in avatar form). Admittedly, the chances of defeating a god on their home plane should be infinitely tiny (maybe a 1 in 100,000 chance), but it could technically be done. I had a dwarf fighter that embarked on a self-imposed quest to kill Grolantar (the Hill God giant and a perpetual racial enemy to dwarves). His goal was to achieve Sainthood as described in one of the "Best of Dragon" magazines. His quest was successful for a number of reasons. 1) I had a POWERFUL party to back me up (about 6 characters....all over 20th level). 2) The dwarf had the Ring of Gaxx and the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords to aid him (he actually began the initial phase of the Quest when he received the Axe). 3) I received a special blessing directly from my diety, Clangeddin Silverbeard, to aid in the final battle. 4) I had a very lenient DM. To be honost, I probably would NOT have allowed the victory if I were the DM. But my dwarf had decided that he would either win great honor for his diety or go out in a blaze of glory. Fantasy and mythology works are filled with stories of mortals challenging the gods themselves. As you said, it's very rare that they succeed, but there is just the slimmest of chances that they could. And most novels - especially those set in Forgotten Realms and Krynn - DO follow AD&D rules. The entire Dragonlance series was ROLEPLAYED by Weiss, Hickman, and thier friends. That's why the characters sometimes do unexpected things...because that's how it happened in the game. For example, the authors admitted that Raistlin was originally a very weak character. Then - in one of the gaming session shortly after changing alignments - the PLAYER used the low, raspy whisper that suddenly made the character seem MUCH more menacing. Weiss and Hickman said that they would NEVER have thought to do that with Raistlin on their own. Well anyway, I agree with you in theory...it SHOULD be ALMOST completely impossible for a PnP character to defeat a diety....but that's the beauty of PnP...sometimes, you CAN do the impossible.

I have to agree there, about the whole challenging of Gods and such, it just makes books more interesting.

The moderator bought up a great point about the Literary License, no author has to obey the rules.

Besides, how do you write a book based on a game with rules? I mean, sure it may say 'apprentice' for a character in the book, but does this neccessarily mean that the apprentice is a Level 1 whatever class they are? Some people apprentice themselves out when they already have skills and want to learn more. There's always someone more skillful after all.

Plus, if you take reality for an instance, people experience life experiences faster than other people. The D&D rules seem pretty unrealistic when it comes to this. How can every single character created in a D&D campaign learn at the same exact rate? Sure, it doesn't happen, but it's set that way. You only get a certain amount of experience for whatever monster you kill. Someone can automatically kill, lets say, 2 billion Goblins, and they would be just as experienced as someone who has killed 20 dragons. How does that work though?

I mean, if all this person has killed is Goblins, then how does that qualify them to kill a Dragon?

[ 03-29-2002, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Jerr Conner ]

[Luvian]

I agree with Cerek, this is off topic.

If we only look at the power those mages have, and forget about God killings and other such hobbies, I would give my vote to Elminster.

Why? Because he has the backup of a Deity, and she like him a lot. Those of you Who read the Novel "Elminster in Hell" will know what I mean. Mystra killed millions of demons, so much that there was so much blood all over the first layer of hell she nearly drowned Elminster. The only reason she did not keep on killing more of them is that she was creating a rift between hell and the Forgotten Realm. She sent almost every single powerfull characters of Forgotten Realms after Elminster, from the Simbul to Halaster Blackcloack, the infamous mad wizard living in undermountain. She even granted them even more power than they already had in her quest to get Elminster back.

[ 03-29-2002, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

[Stile, The Blue Adept]

Personally, I think I am a more powerful magic user than they... [img]tongue.gif[/img] where I come from, I am so powerful that magic cannot be used directly on myself. So this topic is a moot point, I'd whoop all of 'em

[Lady Blue03]

Originally posted by Stile, The Blue Adept: Personally, I think I am a more powerful magic user than they... [img]tongue.gif[/img] where I come from, I am so powerful that magic cannot be used directly on myself. So this topic is a moot point, I'd whoop all of 'em

Last timei checked, you werent an AD&D character

[Stile, The Blue Adept]

Originally posted by Lady Blue03: quote: Originally posted by Stile, The Blue Adept: Personally, I think I am a more powerful magic user than they... [img]tongue.gif[/img] where I come from, I am so powerful that magic cannot be used directly on myself. So this topic is a moot point, I'd whoop all of 'em

Last timei checked, you werent an AD&D character [/QUOTE]Hmm... not as of yet Milady, though with a bit of music and a rhyme, just maybe? eh, but after last night, I realize that couch isn't all too comfortable.. so I'll not even fathom going into this further

[Memnoch]

Here's one for you godslayers, to the tune of Coolio's Gangsta's Paradise. Courtesy of Brian Ostermeyer.


Munchkin Paradise
(Sung to Gangsta's Paradise by Coolio, new words by Brian 'Cevalic' Ostermeyer)

As I walk through the valley filled with vampric dragons
I take a look at my inventory and pulled out plus ten flagons
Cause I've been hacking and slaying so long
Even my DM forgets that I learned the rules wrong.
But I ain't never got an item that was too out of line.
My character's treated like a king, a PC ahead of his time.
Gods be watchin what they sayin when they hear that I'm playin.
I really hate to brag but I killed Tiamat --
I did it bare handed cause she made me mad, fool.
I'm the kinda PC every gamer wanna be like,
On my throne in the night
A king with godly might.

Chorus:
We've been spending most our time
Gaming in a munchkin paradise.
Rolled for godhood once or twice,
Gaming in a muncking paradise.
We've been spending most our time
Gaming in a munchkin paradise.
Rolled for godhood once or twice,
Gaming in a munchkin paradise.

Forget the situation, DM got me facin --
I can't play when magic lacks, I was raised on artifacts.
So I gotta find a DM down with me;
I let my brother DM even though he's three.
I'm above the average gamer with gold on my mind.
Got a crossbow in my hand, slaying bolts plus nine.
I'm a pumped up power gamer, just a little tweaked
And my followers are down, even if they're freaks, fool.
Death ain't never gonna touch my PC --
Soon I'll kill Vecna, then you'll all see.
I'm a demi-god now, but will I live to be a diety?
The way things is goin it's for sure.

Tell me why are you - so mad at me?
Cause my guy's a god? - you hate me?

Chorus

Gold and the magic, magic and the gold,
Pile after pile, load after load.
Everybody's bowing, but none of them ain't seein
My ultra master plan, to destory all the heathens.
They say I got to quit, but nobody's gonna change me.
If they can't play with power, how can they game with me?
I guess they can't, I guess they won't,
I guess they leave; that's why I know my game is just solo...

Chorus



I'm sure you can relate...

[oldbittercraig]

"That is one of the aspect I don't like about the D&D novels. They never follow any rules, the writer always do anything they feel like too without any regards about the world that has been build before them."

Thank God writers don't write by the rules. If they did, given constant changes and additions, the books would be obsolete every three years.

Even introducing that arguement is ridiculous.

[Encard]

I can't comment much on the books... but I finally remembered the mages I forgot to mention...

Jehlak (or whatever his name is, the super-powerful mage from The Colors of Chaos by L.E. Modesitt) - he had enough power to destroy large cities and raise a small mountain range. Fancy...

Someone else... forgot again... and, my personal pick...

Durlok (cackle... a Black Mage from Voyage of the Fox Rider by Dennis L. McKiernan) - eh... ok, putting this in spoiler format, since it might ruin part of the book... I'll just say (other than the spoiler) that he's INSANELY powerful... (!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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Alrighty, then... Durlok had enough power to first defeat the combined power of most of the mages in the world, all at one time. Now, considering how magic works in McKiernan's books (it uses life energy, although mages can do a fancy version of resting to regain lost life energy), and since after all those mages were done trying to stop him, they were all very old, and all the power was wielded and targetted by one person... that by itself is pretty fancy. Then, after doing that, he smashed a continent. I don't meen destroyed the cities, or burned everything, or whatever. He did something or other smashy and it sort of broke and then sank under the ocean. Pretty powerful, I'd say. Let's see Elminster do that... oh, and did I mention that mages there are immortal unless they're killed by someone? *grin* *cackle*
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There we go, then... hmm... personally, I'd guess that at the height of his power Durlok could probably defeat at least two of the other mages at one time... *cackle* *grin* *tip*

Originally posted by Jerr Conner: Wait a minute...I thought D&D was loosely based off of Tolkien?

EVERY damn fantasy world is loosely based on on Tolkiens Middle Earth [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Tiamat]

Arnt I talked about in DnD? Wen I first got this name, I thoght it was a guy dragon, not a GIRL! I want to change my displayed name!