views on the thief

[Rataxes]

Yes, though there is a leather armor with -2 AC available early on in ToB if you have it.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by karlosovic: Right out of Chateau Irenicus my halfling assassin/fighter cleared out all the trolls

If you're gonna hack a kit for your Multiclassed character, why not Swashbuckler instead of Fighter? Talk about ouch.

I guess you probably could build your own thief->dual character with a particular role in mind, but I like to have ALL the options available to a thief. That's why I now alternate between Jan Janson, and using the multiplayer trick to create my own NPC thieves everytime I play.

Jan, like all characters (both yours and BioWare's), has his bonuses and drawbacks. Sure, he's Multiclassed, which slows down his Thief skills and his spell progression, but you don't need a full Thief; half a Thief is plenty, provided you've got Locks and Traps covered early on--which Jan does. Where Multiclassing really pays off is when Jan starts getting High-Level-Abilities every time he blows his nose: All told, he's going to get a total of 19 HLAs, whereas a straight Thief or Bard would get 17. Subtract the 6 or so HLAs you'll want to spend on his Mage abilities, and that means 13 Spike Traps per day, plus 9th-Level spells.

There's nothing wrong with having a backup spellcaster, I've found it works quite well. By the time Nalia can cast Pierce Magic, Jan can finish casting Breach a second afterward, allowing you to demolish Dragons and the like twice as quickly. It is indeed a shame that Jan can't cast Animate Dead or Abi-Dalzim's, but Mordy's Sword and Dragon's Breath should be....(ahem) adequate. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Getting tired of his quips is something common to all NPCs (and, in fact, all games), so listing it as one of his drawbacks is rather unfair. The fact that he's Neutral means he complains when the party hits 20 Rep., but hey, I'd sure rather listen to Jan than Jaheira or Anomen.

[Tancred]

An interesting combo I tried a while ago was dual-classing a level 9 Anti-Paladin (new class from the Tactics mod) to a thief. Once he got his Anti-Paladin abilities back, he was a terrifying thing for Mages to face; backstabbing with the ability to dispel effects on hit, which made a mockery of magical protections, and a true sight that worked even while hidden in the shadows. With his fighter background, he could tank too (YAY for a helmet!) and was a fair shot with a crossbow. Nastiest of all, he was a grandmaster in Longswords. All in all, a neat character.

Tanc

[Imrahil]

I'll vote for having a multi-class Mage/Thief. One of my all-time favorite characters.

The HLA's aside (which are great, btw), you can free up any slots you might have used on Invisibility & True Sight (Detect Illusions is highly underrated, IMO - dispel Invis, Mirror Image, Project Image [not that monsters ever use that, but...], Mislead, etc.).

You have a very good back-up spellcaster who can fight & use shortbows - plus, only "half" a character used up being a Thief.

XP for Disarming Traps & Opening Locks (as opposed to setting them off & bashing) adds up very quickly (not to mention an extra scriber).

Use Any Item overcomes any Mage-equipment handicaps.

OK, I said HLA's aside, but... you can keep adding Traps after all the useful Mage abilities are gone. Plus, the Thief side levels up very quickly, & you can add Mage HLA's even when you level up as a Thief.

Stoneskin... Hide In Shadows... go Backstab... fun, fun, fun! [img]smile.gif[/img]

You won't need to use ring-slots for Thief items since your Thief abilities will keep improving.

Simulacrum... is a source of much enjoyment (hey... let's *both* go backstabbing! then I'll cast FireShield while you Sunfire).

- Imrahil

[Butterfingers]

Mage/Thieves are wickedly fun.

Mislead = Backstab infinately = Tell the mayor I said... OUCH! (A cookie if you know the movie ref)

You can totally ignore hiding in shadows if you wish, just use spells to compensate.

So much fun, so many kidneys, so little time [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[karlosovic]

hey six, did you mean hack it to have 2 thief kits ? I wanted the assassin half because I've never tried the poison ability, but otherwise I was just after a fighter/thief (for the strongholds) that would keep levelling as a thief. a human dual can't choose a kit for their second class, so either way I was gonna have to hack it.

Speaking of Jan, I wasn't running him down, Jan is a great character. I was just saying I didn't always want to use the same characters, but I do always want to have a thief. I think in a city with the HQ and a sub-branch of large thief guild, there would be more selection of thieves available for hire, so I enjoy making my own sometimes.

[Baros]

Karlosevic - I was about to do the same trick with the halfling f/t (assassin). I like Assassins anyway (my favourite kit by a long way) and I think that by only getting 15 points/level the interest will be kept for a bit longer (I find that due to rapid level ups that even single-class assassins get excellent abilities very quickly) - it might make me appreciate some of those items a bit more.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by karlosovic: hey six, did you mean hack it to have 2 thief kits ?

Ooops--no. When I said, "why not Swashbuckler instead of Fighter," what I meant was "why not Swashbuckler instead of Assassin." A Fighter/Thief with all the Assassin abilities would indeed be formidable, but a Fighter/Swashbuckler would quickly get all the way down to an AC of -25, and be second only to the Kensai and the Archer in terms of THAC0.

You actually can't use Shadowkeeper to hack yourself 2 kits, even 2 kits of the same class, but you can hack yourself a kit for your 2nd (Dual) class instead of your first. Hel-LO, Fighter->Assassin!

I, personally, will never use Mislead to Backstab. Attacking your enemy with a foe that they cannot detect is clearly abuse, and the only time I'll do it is just for kicks, and then I'll Reload and do it right.

And Butterfingers, it's "Main Office," not "Mayor." Hey, watch out, there's an uppity ■■■■■■ who's gonna hit you on the head with a shovel.....

[Baros]

I'm not sure that a Fighter/Assassin is that bad compared to a regular F/T.

The only additional abilities are poison and increased backstab bonus. I think that compares well for the loss in theiving points. I suppose once you start including HLAs things could get messy... (lots of chances to poison!)

I'm going to give it a go - just need to decide on whether it's a human dual-class or a multiclassed Halfling... either way many crossbow bolts will be fired.

[SixOfSpades]

Thoughts on the Fighter->Assassin and Fighter/Assassin:

1) Set Time Trap(s)
2) When triggered, Poison Weapon
3) Whirlwind if you've got it
4) Use Darts if you don't
5) All attacks in a Time Stop are Auto-Hits.
6) Bury the thing, I suppose