BG dragons

[Whailor]

We should rename this thread - as many others - "The talks of Alson and Dundee, part X". Looks like one is always trying to convince other of something [img]smile.gif[/img] Relax, who cares about the details. You know, too many details turn the "fun" thing into "statistical" thing and generally, "statistics" suck because it's boring. When I play these games, I know all this THAC0 gibberish and such, but I don't care. I use what weapons I think are "fun" and "cool", I don't care what THAC0 they are since I always get things done, and that's it. I don't care personally about the off-hand damage reduction with this or off-hand damage and THAC0 bonus with that - doesn't matter, the mobs are getting hit, so there, case closed [img]smile.gif[/img]

Relax, take it easy, don't go too "statistical"

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Whailor: We should rename this thread - as many others - "The talks of Alson and Dundee, part X". Looks like one is always trying to convince other of something [img]smile.gif[/img] Relax, who cares about the details. You know, too many details turn the "fun" thing into "statistical" thing and generally, "statistics" suck because it's boring. When I play these games, I know all this THAC0 gibberish and such, but I don't care. I use what weapons I think are "fun" and "cool", I don't care what THAC0 they are since I always get things done, and that's it. I don't care personally about the off-hand damage reduction with this or off-hand damage and THAC0 bonus with that - doesn't matter, the mobs are getting hit, so there, case closed [img]smile.gif[/img] Relax, take it easy, don't go too "statistical"

But you have to admit, their discussions are *very* interesting. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Alson]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: There is a reason why I specifically mentioned those monsters. Who do you get to fight in Chapter 6-7? Unless you are one of the rare players that put off doing all the subquests until Chapter 6, these ARE going to be the most common monsters you will get to stick your Equaliser in.

No, actually, i'm one of those not-so-very-rare players who actaully have ToB. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Whailor]

It is interesting, to the point, after that I am usually just getting the feeling that Alson wants to argue every statement Dundee makes [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Alson]

Well...
Not every statement... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

But i'll take it as a compliment, Whailor. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Whailor]

Well, I didn't mean it in any other way [img]smile.gif[/img] Discussion is neat, if people know about what they talk, simply don't make it too long, lest it becomes too winded to follow it in coherent way [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Alson: No, actually, i'm one of those not-so-very-rare players who actaully have ToB. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ASIDE]
I try to keep my discussions and in general, my posts, interesting. I for one, know how boring it can be to write endlessly in an impassionate manner. Engineering Technical Reports and all that. *Shudder*
[/ASIDE]

I would counter that this is an SoA Forum, and you will be surprised how many players do not have ToB( especially those unfortunate to have Macs).

That aside, even if you take into account ToB, a lot of the monsters do not fall in the extreme alignments.
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ToB Spoiler
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Yes. Fire Giants, Demons, Drow, etc... do fall into those categories, but what about the Elementals( like Ogremoch. You do not want to use the Equaliser against him ), Golems, Monks( True Neutral, whoops), etc... ...

In specific situations, I suppose the Equaliser can shine, but overall... other weapon combinations will outshine it. To add further insult, the enchantment is only +3. True, so is the Silver Sword, but that is a Vorpal Weapon! Instant-Death beats damage almost anytime. Not to mention that the Silver Sword is literally GIFTED to you.

"Here! Take this blade!"

2 Chapters later... ...

"Yo! I hold the hilt and my combat skills suck, but I need that blade to make this awesome weapon. Did I mention my combat skills suck? Yeah they suck big time. I think you can beat me and make the sword yourself."

As I mentioned before, you literally had to go through Hell and high-water just to get the parts for the Equaliser, and the result is frankly disappointing.

Here is a simple question for you. If you had to choose between the Celestial Fury, or the Equaliser. Which one will you choose?

[Alson]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: That aside, even if you take into account ToB, a lot of the monsters do not fall in the extreme alignments. ~ ~ ~ ~ ToB Spoiler ~ ~ ~ ~ Yes. Fire Giants, Demons, Drow, etc... do fall into those categories, but what about the Elementals( like Ogremoch. You do not want to use the Equaliser against him ), Golems, Monks( True Neutral, whoops), etc... ...

Golems belong to SoA. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
There are waaaaaay more Fire Gaints, Demons and Drow in ToB than there are Elemntals an Golems. And many players will never fight the Monks anyway.

In specific situations, I suppose the Equaliser can shine, but overall... other weapon combinations will outshine it. To add further insult, the enchantment is only +3. True, so is the Silver Sword, but that is a Vorpal Weapon! Instant-Death beats damage almost anytime. Not to mention that the Silver Sword is literally GIFTED to you.

The enchantment is not a big concern - the way i see it, the off hand weapon is there to give bonuses, not to attack.
A +6 damage bonus is good, you must agree.

And lets not forget, Dundee - the Silver Sword is two-handed, so comparing them is a bit pointless.

As I mentioned before, you literally had to go through Hell and high-water just to get the parts for the Equaliser, and the result is frankly disappointing.

This is a good point.
On the other hand - don't you go through this hell anyway, Equalizer or not?
JID is, well... Mandatory.
The Beholder Cavern and the Illithid City? I did them even when i thought the Equalizer sucked - they offer other good loot, and TONS of XP.

Here is a simple question for you. If you had to choose between the Celestial Fury, or the Equaliser. Which one will you choose?

Honestly? Celestial Fury.
Now, here is a simple question to you. If you had to choose between the pre-analysis Equalizer, or the post-analysis Equaliser. Which one will you choose?

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Alson: Golems belong to SoA. [img]tongue.gif[/img] There are waaaaaay more Fire Gaints, Demons and Drow in ToB than there are Elemntals an Golems. And many players will never fight the Monks anyway.

Hmmmm? The very first level of Watcher's Keeps have Golems, Fire Elementals in Yaga Shura's Temple, Magic Golems, Water Elementals in Abazigal's Lair, Air Elementals in Watcher's Keep and the Final Battle. Blah, blah, blah. They be a viable portion of the game. Monks? Right I suppose... but it is soooo fun to take on 50+ enemies. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

The enchantment is not a big concern - the way i see it, the off hand weapon is there to give bonuses, not to attack. A +6 damage bonus is good, you must agree. And lets not forget, Dundee - the Silver Sword is two-handed, so comparing them is a bit pointless.

Like I said, +6 on the main-hand, but the off-hand is still crippled. Why be so concerned about boosting the main-hand only when you can boost BOTH hands?

I mentioned the Silver Sword only because it has a similar enchantment level.

This is a good point. On the other hand - don't you go through this hell anyway, Equalizer or not? JID is, well... Mandatory. The Beholder Cavern and the Illithid City? I did them even when i thought the Equalizer sucked - they offer other good loot, and TONS of XP.

You will be surprised by the number of people who choose to skip the Underdark hotspots. Not everybody enjoys fighting Mind Flayers, and frankly... most non-veterans get fried by the entrance welcome of a Beholder and an Elder Orb.

Honestly? Celestial Fury. Now, here is a simple question to you. If you had to choose between the pre-analysis Equalizer, or the post-analysis Equaliser. Which one will you choose?

NEITHER! [img]tongue.gif[/img] Give me the Defender of Easthaven or the Celestial Fury anytime( defensive and offensive respectively). These are the other notable +3 enchanted SoA weapons.

There are times when I do forge the Equaliser for a lark, but more often than not, it collects dust. Looks nice, sounds nice, maybe feels nice, but works nice? Nah... ...

Oh, and before I forget, when you enter ToB... even Celestial Fury begins to pale. You can only imagine how the Equaliser will fare then. Axe of Unyielding, Spectal Brand, Hindo's Doom, Runehammer, etc... ...

Why... you can even throw away the Equaliser before you enter ToB, if you are so evilly-inclined or cheesy.

Blackrazor.

It is a Longsword too to boot!

It just keeps getting worse and worse for the *GASP!* "legendary" item. Pfft! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 11-22-2002, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Alson]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: Hmmmm? The very first level of Watcher's Keeps have Golems, Fire Elementals in Yaga Shura's Temple, Magic Golems, Water Elementals in Abazigal's Lair, Air Elementals in Watcher's Keep and the Final Battle. Blah, blah, blah. They be a viable portion of the game.

Fire Elementals? Its time to take out the dusty Wave from the Bag of Holding!

Golems? Crom can insta-kill some, and the rest are easily disposed with any weapon, especially the FoA.

Monks? Right I suppose... but it is soooo fun to take on 50+ enemies. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

True that.
That's why i like the Improved Yaga Shura battle so much.

Like I said, +6 on the main-hand, but the off-hand is still crippled. Why be so concerned about boosting the main-hand only when you can boost BOTH hands?

But the Equalizer bonuses are applied to both hands!!

You will be surprised by the number of people who choose to skip the Underdark hotspots. Not everybody enjoys fighting Mind Flayers, and frankly... most non-veterans get fried by the entrance welcome of a Beholder and an Elder Orb.

PANSIES!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

NEITHER! [img]tongue.gif[/img] Give me the Defender of Easthaven or the Celestial Fury anytime( defensive and offensive respectively). These are the other notable +3 enchanted SoA weapons.

*cough* Flail of Ages *cough*

Anyway, neither Celestial Fury nor the Defender of Easthaven - and you know my opinion on these weapons - can add +6 damage to each strike. They add other bonuses, yes - but a +6 bonus is too good to be ignored.

Oh, and before I forget, when you enter ToB... even Celestial Fury begins to pale. You can only imagine how the Equaliser will fare then. Axe of Unyielding, Spectal Brand, Hindo's Doom, Runehammer, etc... ...

That is my whole point!
The "old" Equalizer would suck in ToB.
The "new", +6 damage to each attack, Equalizer is still useful even in the later stages of ToB! IMO, at least.