ok ..what the hell

[Morgeruat]

pritchke is correct bards are like paladins and cannot be dual-classed.

however a bard would have the spellcasting ability of a mage and the ability to use up to chainmail(there is some elven chain that lets you cast while wearing armor, but it's not available till late in the game) and (nearly) any weapon, the only real drawback is that you can't get the highest levels of magic (8-9 I believe)

[NobleNick]

kartetse,

pritchke and Morgeruat are right, of course; but you show a bit more smarts than I did: I actually spent several hours rolling and playing my dual class Fighter/Bard before realizing I wouldn't be allowed to DC her over from Fighter!

Lymond gave an excellent treatment of dual classing, as seen from my knot hole. There are so many good reasons for dual classing; but virtually all of the really good combinations I can think of start as Fighter. (Other less than optimal combinations might be needed to ensure that a party has everything it needs at every point in its life cycle; and I own a few of those mistakes.. er, characters.)

Songs are the big reason to have a Bard. Her weapon handling abilities are totally irrelevant after she hits level 11 and gets War Chant. I say again, in a "Fighter" heavy party (3 or more Fighters, Paladins, Druids, Rangers, or whatever), the Bard should never draw a weapon: she is much more deadly singing the War Chant.

One thing that did surprise me, though was the Bard's magic skills: They were a nice complement to my MC Illusionist/Thief, and since a Bard is a generalist she could pick up the neat spells from my Illusionist's opposing schools. But I digress. As I was saying, the surprise was that, although a Bard appears to have puny magical powers compared to a Mage of the same level, she leveled MUCH more quickly than the MC Mage (mine is a Mage/Thief). So, she picked up many more spell slots than I expected, and her spells based on clvl were much more powerful than the MC Mage!

What's a party,
Without a song?
Bard's ROCK!
Party on!!

[ 11-04-2003, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[kartetse]

Thanks, guys! No dual classing for me then, a bit sad though - SINCE HE IS THE ONLY ONE OF MY PARTY THAT ALLOWS FOR DUAL CLASSING.
I wonder if I should start over with a new party?

---

kartetse

---------------------
do da do, kick da goo and stay outta da zoo...

[NobleNick]

kartetse,

If you are not happy with your characters, I would consider it. There are many different viable party combinations; and MANY different opinions on which characters and combos are best. But I think most would agree that your pick of party can affect how easy/hard it is to get through the game. And... since the game is already plenty hard enough (IMHO) I like to go for the combos that make it easier. To that end, here are some general principles I have observed:

1.) The ability to hide in shadows (a'la Thief or Ranger) is a very important skill for scouting.
2.) A Thief's Find/Disarm Traps skill is very nice to have.
3.) Healing spells reduce the time a party needs to spend sleeping.
4.) Cure poison/disease spells or potions become almost mandatory from the early mid-game and on.
5.) Magic is fun, and the more you get the easier the game is; but physical parties fare best: Bring at least 3 "fighters" ("Fighter" = the class FIGHTER. "fighter" = Fighter, Paladin, Druid, Ranger, etc.) in a 6-person party. More is better.
6.) If you have HoW AND a "fighter-heavy" party (i.e., you have followed the advice in #5) then a Bard is an excellent addition, since every melee or ranged attacker in the party enjoys a net 4-point tilt in the THAC0/AC equation against enemies when she sings (2-point bonus to party's attacks AND 2-point penalty for enemies' attacks).
7.) If you have HoW installed, a Druid is a powerful character. A Fighter/Druid DC is even more powerful.
8.) At least one character in the party should be a race with infravision.
9.) More skills can be packed into a party by Dual Classing (DC) or Multi Classing (MC). To get 4 solid fighters, 2 magic users (including the Bard), a Thief, and at least one Cleric into a 6 person party, you will need to DC (which I prefer) and/or MC. There are some trade-offs, but generally it is worth it to DC as many characters as your party can afford. (The amount of expo expended to get Fighter 6 is miniscule compared to the total expo available in IWD. Ditto for Fighter 9 in IWD/HoW.)
10.) It is almost impossible to not benefit by starting any class (that can be DCed) as a Fighter, stacking weapons skills in a weapon that will be usable by the later class. (It is typically unwise to DC any class to Fighter, for several reasons, including loss of the HP bonus for high CON. But you might need to if you have a party full of Fighters DCing to other classes and your party needs a Fighter until they regain their skills.)
11.) I have heard lots of people rave about the Mage/Cleric MC: collapses Mage and Cleric into one slot, opening up another slot for a Fighter.
12.) You get more bang for your buck with a Specialist Mage, especially if she will be MC and also especially if you have multiple magic users. But you should carefully examine the specialist's opposing schools, to ensure that your pick of school does not lock you out of really useful schools like Evocation (Invocation) and Conjuring. A standard choice for many going specialist is to choose Illusionist.

What's a party,
Without a song?
Bard's ROCK!
Party on!!

[ 11-05-2003, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]