Ironworks half free half premium pay to keep it alive.

[Reeka]

Crimson, it didn't work with Dan hosting the site---he couldn't handle the bandwidth.

I know we have gone through a bad stretch here off and on for a few months and Dan is working on something.

I know that he doesn't like ads. He has that one on the index page. Actually, we tried clicking on ads once in the past and it didn't raise hardly any money.

Luvian, I think by and large the members do not want anything to distinguish members that contribute from that don't.

In fact, I really have a problem with people announcing on the forum how much money they are sending. Or announcing that they are sending at all. I think it makes the members who cannot contribute feel bad.

Every time it happens, some of the kids start posting apologies because they only have pocket money.

I don't know why people can't send Dan a donation and if they are concerned about whether he got it or not or want to let him know---e-mail him or PM him.

I believe it creats on a subconscius level in the minds of the members, who the contributors or and who they are not.

One thing I love about the internet is the lack of class distinction. I think this sets up class distinction.

BTW, there were reasons why Dan was struggling this month. He had to pay a licensing fee (I think that was what it was) last month and his wife went on being paid monthly rather than bi-monthly (though this means she is in a better job opportunity category at work). He knew this month would be rough. It is always rough when the way you are paid gets changed.

[TheCrimsomBlade]

Sorry to say this but is seems that alot of our members are just plain STUPID!!
Now go back to the first post and read it again and this time READ THE WORDS, and if anyone can find the words POP-UP in my post I will pay them $10,000.00 in CASH U.S.Dollars. I new all the childern of this post would not read the words because as soon as they see PAY they run off in a corner and start shakeing. I hate POP-UPS if I never see another pop-up it will be to soon. I'm talking about billboard space Adds those are adds that stay in one place on the Front page of each forum not in the comment section. There are plenty of adds by game companies that will pay good money to place an add or a group of rotating adds on well populated gaming web sites.
Yes I know alot of the people that come to this site are young and have no money and with my Idea you would still be able to come to Ironworks For FREE, post for FREE, read all sections for FREE, there woud just be an add at the top of each page not each post and NO STINKING POP-UPS. this would be no hair off any of your butts it wouldn't interfear with any of the forums, BUT if you don't wish to see the ADDS that are helping Ziroc to pay for this site then you buy the ad-free forums for a small fee.
Why should the same people come up with money every month so that all the childern in the world can get something for nothing and then whine when somebody comes up with a very good Idea to help save this WEB site. There is No reason that Ziroc and his family should Have to pay one thin dime for your intertainment

FLASH within the next couple of years WEB sites will be taxed in the united states buy the hour or by the minuite. That is what the government is trying to deside. When that happens the free ride will be over and everyone will have to pay just like they do when they make a phone call but at 8 to 10 times the rate and those of us that have a subscription will get a better and cheaper rate. I can hardly wait for the free loaders to scream then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[johnny]

originally posted by TheCrimsonBlade Sorry to say this but is seems that alot of our members are just plain STUPID!!

And some members have a really bad temper and might wanna take a look in a mirror sometime.

[Reeka]

Crimson, I knew you weren't talking about pop-ups. I was just saying that that was something Z had done in the past. I also know that he does not like the ad idea. I don't think of the people here that do not contibute as beeing "free-loaders."

I don't know why you are getting so upset. Also, I don't know how you know it is the same people every month donating to the site. I don't remember Ziroc posting a list of the people that donate to this forum.

I do think we need to keep this in some perspective. When someone creates a forum, they knowing going in that it will cost money----money that will come out of their pocket unless they have partners or whatever to help bear the burden.

Am I saying that IW isn't enormouse and Z doesn't need the help? Of course not!

I don't think it is fair to call those who do not contribute as whiney children wanting something for nothing or free-loaders.

[NewbietoRPGs]

OK OK! Let's all relax! Jeez! There's no need to start name calling. I mean who's acting like a kid here anyway? Look, I'm sure all of you put some of your hard earned money towards other frivolous things...Why not just subtract one and add this site instead? There has to be a compromise somewhere, don't ya think? Personally, when I joined I was surprised there wasn't some sort of member fee. Maybe an annual fee wouldn't be so bad. I'm sure some members out there pay one on their precious credit cards every year. But hey, that's just one opinion.

[spydar]

I hate pop-ups but could see myself tolerating them if it were the only way for me to use this site. I'm not too young for credit cards or anything but rather am trying to survive in university (which is becoming very difficult, stupid greedy @$%#*%). however, I do see the ultimate point, being if we all shirk Z he will be forced to shirk us. so I'm giving my full support to whatever gets decided either way. kinda of an ambiguous post but whatever, I'm trying to see when my avatar will change anyway

[Reeka]

Newbie,

You are quite right that most of us do spend money on frivolous things. There are just some things to bear in mind:

* Alot of our members are teenagers who have neither bank accounts or credit cards.

* Alot of our members are not in the US and a $20 donation is not just a $20 donation---there are conversion fees involved.

No one has any problem with people paying any donation that they chose too. Dan has stated in the past that this will never be a "paid forum."

My chief complaint is people that post about the money they give in threads making those who cannot donate feel second rate.

As I always say, there is nothing preventing anyone from donating money to IW. I am just opposted to creating any "class structure."

[harleyquinn]

Originally posted by Reeka: In fact, I really have a problem with people announcing on the forum how much money they are sending. Or announcing that they are sending at all. I think it makes the members who cannot contribute feel bad. Every time it happens, some of the kids start posting apologies because they only have pocket money. I don't know why people can't send Dan a donation and if they are concerned about whether he got it or not or want to let him know---e-mail him or PM him. I believe it creats on a subconscius level in the minds of the members, who the contributors or and who they are not.

Reeka,
I had never thought of it that way before. I always just thought I was letting Dan know I'd be sending some money his way. Thanks for pointing out another side to it. In the future, if I'm going to send something, I'll just PM him. I hope no one felt bad as a result of any of my "I'm sending you $" posts.

As far as the rest goes, I think letting Dan set up the subscription or contribution system ( I think it was something like a bar telling us what he needs or something like that) is the best solution. I agree with Reeka, I don't like any system that makes there be a difference between members.

[ 07-21-2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: harleyquinn ]

[Ladyzekke]

Well I remember that old thread Grojlach mentioned. I agree that I don't remember anyone personally attacking anyone else, more of the idea, which if I recall was more like an issue wherein if a person donates they could get a special avatar or something. A few people, including myself, didn't agree with that idea for many reasons. I personally thought flaunting an avatar in front of other's who couldn't afford to donate might cause ill feelings, etc.

I have always been in favor of banner ads for this site, I don't mind them. And Crimsonblades suggestion of a small fee seemed a reasonable amount. As it stands only a small amount of people have been donators I bet holding up the show, donating more than $12.00 a year as Crimson suggests. And to have the option to not donate, but have a banner ad, isn't really that big of a deal (to me anyway). Pop-ups, no doubt, I couldn't tolerate those things, see them enough and I hate them! But I know Ziroc would never do that, not incase things became exceptionally bad, and even then, I have to wonder if he would just shut down things altogether rather than have pop-ups. Guess it depends on the pop-up, some places only have one when you first go there, but some are absolutely INSANE, you get one each time you click on anything, hate those the worst!

Oh and Crimsonblade, chill dude, don't start insulting people now, that won't help anything, and you know it.

[Timber Loftis]

Reeka, when I post that I sent money it isn't to make anyone feel bad. This site gets paid by those who can and who want to -- and I've never seen anyone be made to feel bad for the inability to pay. Some of us are too young, some of us don't have the flow right now -- there is no shame in that. Not here at IWF, thank goodness.

However, for those who can pay but have not yet decided to pay, I post. I would not post an amount -- but that's my style and my preference. I remember the first time I wanted to send money, I inquired with MOds as to an appropriate amount -- so maybe those who do spill the beans as to the amount they post help some folks out.

Regardless, if those of us who have sent money in to IWF chiming in on a thread to say "I hit you, Z" has EVER made someone decide they would contribute, it was worth it.

My opinion.