do you believe in ALIENS?

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Melusine: Some random notes: Lord K - there are creationists who DO believe in the possibility of alien life, y'know? It strikes me how quick you always are to highlight differences between Christians and atheists. Creationists naturally believe in the Biblical seven-day Creation of the world. But some of them also say that since the Bible doesn't say anything about the rest of the universe, it's very possible that aliens do exist. You also said that for evolutionists, it *is* arrogant. Why? I think evolution is the most likely theory I've heard, so I guess I'm an evolutionist. Not sure what else I should be pigeonholed as, but I don't think it would be as a Christian. And yet, I don't find it arrogant at all to believe aliens probably don't exist. How is that arrogant?? You may disagree with it, you may think it's foolish, but why arrogant? Because you AUTOMATICALLY assume that people who don't believe in aliens do so because they think nothing as good as humans can exist? Because they think in human terms of oxygen-breathing, humanoid aliens? I don't think they do, not all of them. In general, just because something is has a very high chance of being true, doesn't make it irrefutably so. Just because the universe is big beyond reckoning, doesn't mean there HAS to be life in it other than ours. I certainly don't exclude the possibility, but I don't mind if people don't believe in it. And I certainly don't think it arrogant.

Well alrighty then. I obviously cant speek for every person on the face of the earth. I am speaking in general terms. There are always extremes. As far as christains thinking there may be aliens, wow, new one on me. Of course, you did read the part where I said no matter how you look at it, it is faith, right? I am not debunking anyone for any idea or thought. The only testimony I have to go by is people I know. They are either one or the other, creationalist or evolutionist. The more you mix these the more subjective ideas get, and cunfusing. Goodness Mel, I sure wasnt trying to insult anyone.

As far as me being quick to seperate the too ideas, this is my ongoing goal. You see, I live in conservative christian community, where people like me are not looked at with to much respect, so I am constantly voicing my opinion louder and louder. Here on IW, I love the fact that I can voice my opinion in a non face to face manner to avoid personal conflict. Please know that I respect all opinions, and love all of you equally. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[andrewas]

Originally posted by Link: IMHO it's absolutely not silly or arrogant to think we're the only ones in the universe. Why would we think otherwise? There hasn't been a single clue of life existing outside of Earth. And that's what scientists do: they state something, and that hypothesis is held until somebody proves it false.

Not quite. Scientists state a reasonable hypothesis, test it and hold it to be true until it fails a test. Statisticaly, it is more likely that a number of intelligent species exist in the universe than that only one such species exists. Therefore extraterrestrial intelligence is not only a valid hypothesis, but its is a reasonable and generaly accepted hypothesis.

Why is one and one two? Not because it simply is the way it is, but because we haven't proven yet that it's not true, so we agreed on that matter with each other. Same goes for life existing elsewhere. Until discovered, it's not there. In my honest opinion of course.

1+1=2 because they are defined that way. They have no natural existence. They are concepts used by humans to represent numerical information.

As far as life existing elsewhere, if it exists it exists. If we havent discovered it yet, it still exists. The odds on us ever discovering extraterrestrial life are minimal, but I am confident it exists.

[Melusine]

Fair enough. [img]smile.gif[/img] But I really don't get the last part of your post (EDIT: this was directed at Lord K! Sorry for any confusion). You WANT to emphasise the differences between you and Christians? Isn't that really inconstructive? You're married to one, wouldn't it help you more to think of all the things you have in common? That all human beings have in common?
Sorry, but I think alienation is pretty deconstructive...

Anyway, did you really think there are no Christians that are willing to accept aliens may exist?? You sounded suprised, in any case. Come on, of course there are. Just like there are non-Christians who do NOT believe in aliens. I don't see why you have to draw parallels between the two topics, because I don't think there are any conclusions to be drawn from the fact that some Christians do not believe in aliens. Why not discuss belief in alien life without having to drag in religious beliefs?

[ 02-17-2003, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

[Rageheart]

Originally posted by Jeffi0: They're out there... They watch... Help! I've said too much They are coming for me! AIIIEEEE!!!! *disappears in a ray of green light* [img]tongue.gif[/img]

well dang it, i thought i blew those creeps up when i planted the nuke in their mothership, man i'll have to do it all over again. Now where to find another nuke.......

[LordKathen]

Ya, I suppose your right. I was origanally commenting on the arrogance post earlier in the thread. Ironicaly to your reply to me, I seperated the theroies becouse I did not want speek for christians, just evolutionists. I just talked to Lady Aberdene about her view on aliens, and I stand corrected.

As for the other point, thats exactly what we do is focus on our likes, not our dislikes. We alienate (for the most part) our philosophies only, not our love for each other or moral ideas.
To give an example of the prejudgment around my town, somebody wrote a letter to our newspaper in the opinions column saying that it is arrogent for an athiest to be a leader of the boy scouts becouse athiests have no morals. I flew off the handle with this. I had no idea that kind of idea was still around.
Hopefully you can see my frustration and quickness.

Anyway, sorry to get off topic.
Back to aliens.

[DJG]

Is this a debate or a question?

When you say aliens, if you mean "Things that live but not Earth", I'd have to say I agree. I can't explain why, it's very complicated.

[Link]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: So atoms didn't exist until they were discovered? Pluto didn't exist until it was discovered? Just checking. Your theory sounds like spontaneous generation.

Yeah, basically what you're saying is right. People did not know that there were atoms, so they weren't there. Same goes for Pluto. People didn't know that there was another planet in our solar system, so they couldn't say it existed. (Not to mention the fact that it is not even certain that Pluto is a planet in our solar system)
I think you're misunderstanding what I meant to say. While I said: doesn't exist, I meant to say: doesn't exist as far as we can tell.

I might even add the fact that there has been all this talk about a possible tenth planet in our solar system. Just the fact that people talk about it does not make it true, does it? The fact that I say: I can jump over a hundred feet high, doesn't make it true, does it? Until there is some decent proof (and sorry you guys; that photograph that was taken really doesn't count as any decent fact IMHO, and the fact that there's water (why is water a key component, Ziroc? You said it yourself, oxygen isn't something that is necessary as well) on Mars is even worse proof than the photograph taken by NASA) I don't believe in aliens, no matter how much I WANT to believe it.

[Timber Loftis]

Umm... Okay, Link, you're entitled to that opinion. But, I think the Mars-rock evidence that micro-organisms once inhabited the planet is pretty good evidence. Plus, there is a (small) likelihood that the very conditions giving rise to life on Earth could exist elsewhere (Venus is pretty close), and as well those are not the only conditions capable of supporting life (as Ziroc mentioned).

I think ultimately there is enough probability of life elsewhere in the universe to at least look for it. Especially since the means of looking (sending out radio waves containing binary information coding for both pictures and text - including, perhaps unfortunately, a map) is relatively inexpensive.

I think we *must* look for other life just in case. It's precautionary. And, we want to be the *finders* not the *findees* if you know what I mean. Simple fact: any civilization that has been "found" was the weaker civilization.

[Sythe]

They are out there. A few centuries from now they are going to shoot beams at us takes being used as expirments like like RATS!!!!!! We have to prepare WE NEED MORE NUKES!!!!!!!!!!!! jk

I believe in them though but I don't them to come here in my lifetime. It is rather silly in my opinion to think that there is nothing the universe except US! Does this mean we are the RULERS OF THE UNIVERSE?

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Umm... Okay, Link, you're entitled to that opinion. But, I think the Mars-rock evidence that micro-organisms once inhabited the planet is pretty good evidence. Plus, there is a (small) likelihood that the very conditions giving rise to life on Earth could exist elsewhere (Venus is pretty close), and as well those are not the only conditions capable of supporting life (as Ziroc mentioned). I think ultimately there is enough probability of life elsewhere in the universe to at least look for it. Especially since the means of looking (sending out radio waves containing binary information coding for both pictures and text - including, perhaps unfortunately, a map) is relatively inexpensive. I think we *must* look for other life just in case. It's precautionary. And, we want to be the *finders* not the *findees* if you know what I mean. Simple fact: any civilization that has been "found" was the weaker civilization.

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