Religion

Originally posted by Callum Kerr: Yeah, some of you seem to be critical of the actual points and some of you seem to be critical of the way of arguing First, I do not mean to offend anyone... I didn't choose the topic Second, in my class (or school even) nobody really cares about other people's religions or views... or religion itself all THAT much... Third, I was actually looking for someone to write me a speech... so much for religious charity j/k Fourth, I conveniently "forgot to print it out as I was up so late last night doing it..." so I got off with a "you let ur team down

As for religious charity, "God helps those that help themselves". On top of that, You were the one assigned the task to write the speach. For one of us to have given you a speach would have been cheating and thus a sin, and you would have gained nothing from the experience of writing a speach.

[Neuromancer]

Originally posted by B_part: About the nature of God: I think it was Nietsche (but I am far from sure) who said that God is either good or almighty...

Im certainly not going to fall into religious debate pit [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] , but since one of my fav authors crept up...
Nietzsche was actually "propagating" idea that God is dead. Then those two statements would be mutually exclusive. But with Nietzsche ... who knows. He's sometimes much more cryptic and less coherent than Crowley (not that they can be compared in any other way).
It's just a shame what kind of label Nietzsches works got stampet with

Neuro

[Neuromancer]

Originally posted by The Lilarcor: I just have something to say; sure religion causes problems, as in when the greeks were killing the christian

Actually, those were romans. It would be nice to add, though, that the christians of that time were one of the more agressive religions.

Neuro

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Neuromancer: quote: Originally posted by The Lilarcor: I just have something to say; sure religion causes problems, as in when the greeks were killing the christian

Actually, those were romans. It would be nice to add, though, that the christians of that time were one of the more agressive religions.

Neuro[/QUOTE]So you're saying it was actually the Christian's fault that they were fed to the lions for entertainment. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]
[img]graemlins/jawdrop.gif[/img]
I've heard a lot of twisted-logic arguments against Christianity...but this one takes the cake.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: So you're saying it was actually the Christian's fault that they were fed to the lions for entertainment. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/jawdrop.gif[/img] I've heard a lot of twisted-logic arguments against Christianity...but this one takes the cake.

I don't think he was necessarily saying it was their fault, rather that their persecution becomes a little more understandable within the heated social/political climate of the empire. They really were just another uncomprimising, mono-theistic cult that made life difficult for the powers that be at the time. Still, getting fed to wild beasts and burnt at the stake as public entertainment could be viewed as somewhat extreme by today's standards, but within Roman culture it was taken as a normal facet of life essentially following the line of thought of 'well, you wanna join some freaky cult, you're gonna end up paying the price'.

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

As for religious charity, "God helps those that help themselves".

THANK YOU MAGIK!! I will remember that quote the next time Sally Struthers and her christian childrens fund calls me up looking for money Let all thoes dirty 3rd world beggers get jobs and earn their keep!! I am sure Kathy Lee has a sweatshop nearby for them to work in.

So you're saying it was actually the Christian's fault that they were fed to the lions for entertainment. I've heard a lot of twisted-logic arguments against Christianity...but this one takes the cake.

I would say that yes, it was their fault. After all , it was the romans who crucified christ in the first place. That would have been my first hint that my beliefs werent welcome in the area.It is kind of like how currently people go into muslim countries that have outlawed christianity and try to convert people and then wonder why they are arrested and punished. If you know practiceing and promoting christianity is a crime in the area you are in and you do it anyway , then you deserve your punishment.

Back on topic:

I was wondering if anyone at all would have a speech on the subject - preferrably on satanism and sacrifices (you know the bad side of religion), or how atheists still have morals, even though they have no religion

This is the part of your topic that I will get on my soap box about. Satanists are not automaticaly bad people!! Just because you dont blindly follow the western trend of christianity doesnt put you on the "bad side of religion".
Same thing with people who practice religions that involve sacrifices , like VooDoo,Santeria, or Paolo Mayambe(sp?). To them spilling blood is the highest form of offering to their gods.Just because some people find it unappealing doesnt make it wrong or an invalid for of worship.

[Neuromancer]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: So you're saying it was actually the Christian's fault that they were fed to the lions for entertainment. I've heard a lot of twisted-logic arguments against Christianity...but this one takes the cake.

Which flavor ? [img]smile.gif[/img]

In general terms I agree with The Hierophant & The Hunter. It *was* acceptable at that time - and christianity wasnt a wide-spread religion way back then. It was just another rather annoying cult - which worked like a splinter in the eye of panthenon based religion society. Some other acceptable roman behaviour patterns were : killing kids & wife for a crime of their husband/father up to rooting out whole family trees for more *serious* crimes (like offending the emperor). Or massive masturbations in arena while watching people being killed.
And I wasn't assigning *fault* to anyone - history does that instead far better than I do. I just thought that people reading my two lines will put them into the proper historical context & not jump to "attack insert-religion-here post" can of worms. Mea culpa.

Neuro

Edit : Found typos - some, at least [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 11-28-2002, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: Neuromancer ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: quote: Originalyy posted by MagiK As for religious charity, "God helps those that help themselves".

THANK YOU MAGIK!! I will remember that quote the next time Sally Struthers and her christian childrens fund calls me up looking for money Let all thoes dirty 3rd world beggers get jobs and earn their keep!! I am sure Kathy Lee has a sweatshop nearby for them to work in.[/QUOTE]Pardon me, Hunter, but what do the "3rd world beggers" have to do with MagiK's post?? Callum Kerr posted a thread asking if somebody here would do his homework for him. When nobody did, he made a joke about the lack of "religious charity" and MagiK was just countering that. Basically letting him know (in a semi-nice way) that he shouldn't be looking for somebody else to do his assignment for him.

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna quote: Originally posted by Cerek So you're saying it was actually the Christian's fault that they were fed to the lions for entertainment. I've heard a lot of twisted-logic arguments against Christianity...but this one takes the cake.

I would say that yes, it was their fault. After all , it was the romans who crucified christ in the first place. That would have been my first hint that my beliefs werent welcome in the area.It is kind of like how currently people go into muslim countries that have outlawed christianity and try to convert people and then wonder why they are arrested and punished. If you know practiceing and promoting christianity is a crime in the area you are in and you do it anyway , then you deserve your punishment.[/QUOTE]I suppose you're right in one respect, Hunter. Christianity is outlawed in many areas and missionaries who go to those areas do face a significant risk of being jailed or even killed for spreading the Gospel. However, they don't "wonder why they are arrested and punished"...they understand and accept the risks full well when they go there.

I suppose your response would be that they should respect the laws and stay out of those areas then. Maybe so...but the only problem with that is that the even though the Government may have outlawed Christianity, there are many individuals in those countries who disagree with the state-imposed religion and are looking for a better alternative.

My own church sends a missionary group to the Ivory Coast of Africa twice a year to "spread the message of Jesus Christ" to a tribe that holds weekly animal sacrifices in the middle of the village. But we have also reached an agreement with the tribal elders. We do not intefere with thier religious ceremonies. In return, they allow us to give our message without fear of retribution.

But that isn't always the case. There are many, many stories of missionaries who have been captured, tortured, and killed for preaching in a certain area. Like I said, these missionaries understand the risk they face...but feel that serving God is worth the risk.

[Callum Kerr]

God helps those who help themselves... may be true... but I am an aethiest... Satanists may not be bad people... two f my best friends are satanists... but as the general opinion of 'em is bad... then it would have helped to bring them up in my debate.

And yeah, I suppose it is kinda wrong to ask for help from people i haven't met when my friends won't even help me

[Grungi]

satanists are not as bad as people percieve and in the grand scheme of things are LESS destructive than christanity, i saw a great article once listing the reasons why, and its compelling reading, most satanists dont sacrifice chickens, but that in itself is it bad? people in the bible continually sacrificed animals and almost people to prove their faith, yet satanists are the ones with the bad rep for it? satanists just have a different view on things and a different faith and most are nice people so why have a problem with them, all depends on their ideals but as its not a structured faith the ideals of a satanist vary from person to person, you cant judge the whole faith as theres not much to judge, whereas christanity has established and recognised precepts such as the 10 commandments, so are easier to judge, and boy do they break those alot in history, whose caused more wars, torture and pain to people in the world satanists or christians? anyone truly believing its satanists has no idea about history or people. (spanish inquistion, crusades etc etc) Probably the top religion for hurting people across the world is the muslim religion followed by the christian religion, im not having a go at either of them just stating the facts. As per usual the religion means nothing so long as the people that follow them intepret what they say correctly and show respect and love for fellow man, then you cant go wrong [img]smile.gif[/img]