Inside Iraqi Torture Chambers

Originally posted by Animal: Quote: Originally posted by pritchke: Quote: Originally posted by Animal: A Triple Dog Dare???? *Uses best DeNiro voice* Are you talking to me...? Nobody denies the nature of Saddam's regime. That was never in question. Like Donut said, had Bush an co. stated from the start that this war was about human rights, most everyone would agree but it wasn't about HR it was about WoMD. To change the reasoning behind the war half way through it doesn't, in my eyes, still doesn't justify it. The west (I use that term broadly) could have put an end to Saddam during the original gulf war, but decided not to. That decision had consequences, and even though the situation is being solved as we speak (type), the responsibility of those consequences cannot be ignored.

You mean like Saddam gassing all the Kurds, killing traitors, and forcing the UN to impose sanctions after GW1 which would have never happen if we pressed on to remove Saddam.[/QUOTE]Since I believe the gassing of Kurds happened before the Gulf War, that wouldn't have changed. The death of thousands due to sanctions, the deaths of those from the end of the Gulf War to today are partly our responsibility for allowing an obviously evil dictator to remain in power when the opportunity to remove him was there.[/QUOTE]If I remember correctly, thousands (tens of thousands?) of our own people were at risk at that time because of the use of biological and chemical weapons and that our staying there would have had catastrophic results...at least that's what I understood of the situation as my ex-husband (in the service) was dying; a result of his own exposure to chemical or biological weapons in the region during that conflict. R. I. P. Bri.

[pritchke]

Sorry to hear that Lil Lil.

[ 04-10-2003, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Chewbacca]

Alright, lets hear it for liberating the people of North Korea next, they have plenty of torture camps. I also hear of a few of African nations having a little dictator under the collar as well. Let's send them a good old fashion ass-kicking while were are at it.

I have also heard of some countries that dont actually physically torture their political prisoners, but use psycological trama like isolation and pavlonian reward conditioning to break the human psyche of resitance, causing high rates of suicide attempts. Lets bomb that country as well. There are even countries that incarcerate pot-smokers for crying out loud of all the injustice in the world!!!!! Lets liberate them all!!!!


Please, pointing out that people are suffering is a tradition as old as religion. It is nothing new. By this rational war causes suffering and torment and should therefore be avoided.

There poo-poo! whatcha gonna do about it?

[Mordenheim]

Originally posted by Lil Lil: Quote: Originally posted by Animal: Quote: Originally posted by pritchke: Quote: Originally posted by Animal: A Triple Dog Dare???? *Uses best DeNiro voice* Are you talking to me...? Nobody denies the nature of Saddam's regime. That was never in question. Like Donut said, had Bush an co. stated from the start that this war was about human rights, most everyone would agree but it wasn't about HR it was about WoMD. To change the reasoning behind the war half way through it doesn't, in my eyes, still doesn't justify it. The west (I use that term broadly) could have put an end to Saddam during the original gulf war, but decided not to. That decision had consequences, and even though the situation is being solved as we speak (type), the responsibility of those consequences cannot be ignored.

You mean like Saddam gassing all the Kurds, killing traitors, and forcing the UN to impose sanctions after GW1 which would have never happen if we pressed on to remove Saddam.[/QUOTE]Since I believe the gassing of Kurds happened before the Gulf War, that wouldn't have changed. The death of thousands due to sanctions, the deaths of those from the end of the Gulf War to today are partly our responsibility for allowing an obviously evil dictator to remain in power when the opportunity to remove him was there.[/QUOTE]If I remember correctly, thousands (tens of thousands?) of our own people were at risk at that time because of the use of biological and chemical weapons and that our staying there would have had catastrophic results...at least that's what I understood of the situation as my ex-husband (in the service) was dying; a result of his own exposure to chemical or biological weapons in the region during that conflict. R. I. P. Bri.[/QUOTE]Sorry to hear that as well friend.

pritchke & Mordenheim,
Thank you both.
I feel for the guys who have lived through it. My ex was dead within just a few weeks...others still live with a variety of illnesses and cancers caused by their exposure to chemical and biological weapons in the Gulf War.

Thank goodness that those kinds of tactics and the tortures of the Iraqi citizens is being brought to an end. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Donut]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: . I'm sure we'll have to give some kind of bone to the UN, but I don't think it will be much. Just enough to get Blair off the hook at home. .

Oh no Sir T. We want a reckoning with the poodle at the next election.

[Mouse]

Originally posted by Lil Lil: My ex was dead within just a few weeks...others still live with a variety of illnesses and cancers caused by their exposure to chemical and biological weapons in the Gulf War.

I was under the impression that there was no proven use of WoMD by Saddam's forces during Desert Storm. I believe the vast majority of "Gulf War Syndrome" sufferers attribute their illnesses to either the administration of cocktails of anti-nerve agents and an aggressive regime of innoculations prior to deployment in Kuwait or to the effects of coming into contact with DU weapon residue.

However, none of the above in any way affects my deepest sympathies on your loss.

Originally posted by Mouse: Quote: Originally posted by Lil Lil: My ex was dead within just a few weeks...others still live with a variety of illnesses and cancers caused by their exposure to chemical and biological weapons in the Gulf War.

I was under the impression that there was no proven use of WoMD by Saddam's forces during Desert Storm. I believe the vast majority of "Gulf War Syndrome" sufferers attribute their illnesses to either the administration of cocktails of anti-nerve agents and an aggressive regime of innoculations prior to deployment in Kuwait or to the effects of coming into contact with DU weapon residue.

However, none of the above in any way affects my deepest sympathies on your loss.[/QUOTE]No officailly confirmed use (by the U.S. government since confirming it would put pressure on them to pay out benefits for vets).

There Are Tons of links related to a myriad of illness, cancers, and deaths all related to GWS, blaming exposures to single elements, a combination of exposures (chemical biological, smoke from the oil fires, viruses), exposures combined with side effects of the vaccines, etc. and at least one that I was able to find which "proves" it was caused by the innoculation cocktail.

As for my ex's case, he was sick within days after being exposed to a combination of chemical and biological agents, hospitalized within a week and dead within a month, literally eaten alive by "some new and as of yet unidentified and swiftly spreading "cancer" which was apparently just unstoppable".

I don't think anyone really knows.

Thank you for your sympathies. I was divorced from the man long enough for it not to have had a great effect on me but my son lost his dad, his daughter lost her father, his wife lost her husband, and his parents lost their eldest son...all for no "apparent" reason...it is those people who really deserve anyone's sympathy.

I guess this current conflict will tell more about the inoculation's contribution?

[ 04-10-2003, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: Lil Lil ]

[pritchke]

Another possibility is exposure to depleted Uranium used in ammunition. I know a British Commando who really does not like the idea of using depleted Uranium as it can makes people very sick as well. I guess it is possible to get enough radio active exposure from it to kill you but I am not sure. Definitely likely to shorten your life span at a later time.

When I asked him why are goverenments still use it, "He said the alternative is more expensive."

true, but my ex wasn't in a fighting position while there. ?