A genuine Middle East question

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Desdicado: a lack of hope will make people turn to any available means.

This statement works for both the Palestinian and the Israeli side of the argument.

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Desdicado: why no US sanctions or military action to stop it?. Had to put this in but I guess we've already covered this in earlier posts in this thread.

Yep, and I covered the answer, you just didn't like what I said.

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Desdicado: Because Israel is an ally of the US and so can do what the hell it likes.

That's not what Cerek meant, but you made a good "one liner" out of it. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

You don't support military action against Iraq, but you do support it against Israel. I find that interesting.

[Masklinn]

Two thoughts :

Israel is grabbing more and more Palestinian's territory each day. Are the Palestinians supposed to do nothing and wait to see how many of them can stand in 1m² ?

US has always vetoed, at the UN, sanctions against Israel. And then they yell because France's threat of a veto. Bah.

Anyway, the most important thing we can say now is that :

Ronn...

...you're such a spammer !

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Masklinn: Ronn... ...you're such a spammer !

I'm not a spammer, it's just that almost everything I say is so important it deserves a separate post. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[Masklinn]

I have to let it go.

How would you feel if you were a Palestinian ?
What would you do ?
What would you think ?

How would you feel if you were an Israeli ?
What would you do ?
What would you think ?

It's too easy for us to talk about that from the outside. But we don't know.

Think about these ppl who were born and raised in a constant state of war. How can they have the necessary insight to think and debate like we do atm.

It's like these Palestinian children we saw cheering and laughing after the tragic 9/11 event. It was shocking wasn't it ? In fact it wasn't. These children were born and raised among war, death and destruction. They have been told all their little life that it's Israel/USA fault. Of course they would cheer, I would too in this situation and you would too...

All is a matter of point of view. We don't have theirs, we can't even imagin theirs.

So stop wondering about who is right and who is not. This need to be solved in a manner that fits both sides. That will require some time for the hate that has been growing through generations to be forgotten. This won't be easy. Nope, not easy at all. But this is what we need to focus on.

And the first thing we can do is to stop throwing fuel on the hate brasero.

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Masklinn: So stop wondering about who is right and who is not. This need to be solved in a manner that fits both sides. That will require some time for the hate that has been growing through generations to be forgotten. This won't be easy. Nope, not easy at all. But this is what we need to focus on. And the first thing we can do is to stop throwing fuel on the hate brasero.

Very well said, as usual, my friend.

[Thoran]

Originally posted by Masklinn: So stop wondering about who is right and who is not. This need to be solved in a manner that fits both sides. That will require some time for the hate that has been growing through generations to be forgotten. This won't be easy. Nope, not easy at all. But this is what we need to focus on. And the first thing we can do is to stop throwing fuel on the hate brasero.

IMO the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is fueled from within. The actions of the rest of the world for years have been along the lines of "we're sick of this already... just straighten it out!" and that includes the US. Hawks on both sides of the issue just can't let go of their hate... they want the other side to suffer. As long as hate rules, death and pain will result.

The whole settlement thing is a way for Israeli hawks to put Israel in a position where it CAN'T simply give Palestinians a homeland... because of issues of protecting Israeli's who live in Palestinian territory. But at the same time, that land is now occupied by Israel because Arabs have started numerous wars to try to "drive Israel into the sea"... and they've been adept at losing them. US support of Israel is so hateful to Arabs/Islamic nations because it negates their efforts to support Palestinians. IMO it's the pot calling the kettle black for them to claim that we're "meddling".

Anyway... IMO this problem won't be solved until Palestinians discover a new and nonviolent way to communicate their need for a land of their own. At that point, Israel will have no ability to claim "we need to protect ourselves" as a means of denying Palestinians their right to nationhood.

[Masklinn]

IMO this problem won't be solved until Palestinians discover a new and nonviolent way to communicate their need for a land of their own.

As I stated in my post above, it's really hard to make someone who has been raised in hate/violence/war/death/destruction think like that.

I wish it was that easy.

But you're right, Isreal is partially covered by the fact that their actions *seem* more legitimate.

[Charean]

Originally posted by Desdicado: Can anyone tell me why Israel is allowed to kill it's own citizens and foreign nationals almost every day and Saddam gets invaded apparently for doing this 12 years ago?. GAZA CITY (CNN) -- At least nine Palestinians were killed and 20 injured Monday during Israeli operations in Gaza, Palestinian security and medical sources said. The incidents came a day after Israel Defense Forces called "regrettable" an incident in which an Israeli bulldozer ran over and killed an American peace activist at Rafah in southern Gaza. The Israeli newspaper Haaretz cites Palestinian sources as saying a four-year-old girl, two teenagers and at least two gunmen were among the dead. This is after Israel sent tanks into a Palestian area. Killing a 4 year old girl. I have a 2 year old and if anyone sent tanks into my town and killed her I'm damn sure you'd find me in their town next week blowing them right up in return and me also. Why no UN resolution against Israel?, why no UN observers?. US double standards?. A bit off topic possibly but I am trying to set a context and am asking a genuine question that maybe those in the US can answer, why the double standards?. Why give massive support to one and invade the other?.

As you can see, the Palistinians and the Israelis have been at war for a long time. The simplified version is that in the 1940's, the UN gave land to the Jews and they called it Israel. It was finally a country to call their own. However, that land belonged to Palestine. They weren't thrilled to give it up.

That being said - the main reason is because Israel is the only true Democracy in the Middle East. That makes it valuable for diplomatic reasons.

I am not saying either side is right or wrong - I am on the fence myself and I am Jewish - but both cultures have painted the other as evil for so long that peaceful resolutions are tough. And right now, nonexistent.